"Like Mashed Potatoes.. You Have to Keep Beating Them." Report from the Alabama PACT Board Meeting

I would just add ... (4.00 / 5)

That Folsom and Bradley Byrne both did a creditable job at the meeting today and did themselves no harm as far as 2010 prospects, but after insisting on the option to dissolve the PACT again and again, Kay Ivey is toast in 2010.  She appointed a small committee -- only Board members -- to work with the Legislature on a long term solution.  Many in the audience suggested including a parent but Ivey ignored several parents who offered to serve on this committee.  Tone deaf!

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 14:36:28 PM CDT

Poor Kay Ivey. If she was toast, that would be an improvement... (4.00 / 3)

I'm afraid that political toast is what Kay could have aspired to, sometime in the past, if she had caught the right breaks.

Kay Ivey might be charcoal in 2010,  at best.

Worst case? Try ash.

Wood ash is a good soil additive, especially in North Alabama where the soil is so acid.  So wood ash is not such a terrible thing, viewed properly.

Just sayin.

"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

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by: herding old cats @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 21:54:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One good suggestion (4.00 / 5)

Countrycat, I was apparently sitting in the seat right behind you at the board meeting today, and saw you recording.

There was one good suggestion from Ivey today, and that was to make clear to our representatives that we want them to fix the program and honor the state's commitments.  I think that's very important.  We can't any of us assume that others will contact them, or that they "know" how important it is.  It's only by shoving our concern under their noses and keeping it there that we will get appropriate action.  I've already sent letters to my reps today, and made clear my concern.  Here's part of what I wrote:

"Sir, let me be crystal clear here.  This is a litmus test issue for me and for the many other parents in the same situation.  We are more well-informed, organized and involved than the average, and this is an issue affecting our children.  We are expecting the state legislature, our elected representatives, you, to fix this, fix it right, and ensure that the state fully satisfies its obligations.  We will be watching."

So keep up the good work here and elsewhere, spreading the information around, keeping everybody up to date.  And keep after the politicians!

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by: roadhowl @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 14:57:57 PM CDT

Beat On! Beat Often! (4.00 / 4)

Goosebump comment;

"Sir, let me be crystal clear here.  This is a litmus test issue for me and for the many other parents in the same situation.  We are more well-informed, organized and involved than the average, and this is an issue affecting our children.  We are expecting the state legislature, our elected representatives, you, to fix this, fix it right, and ensure that the state fully satisfies its obligations.  We will be watching."

I love the smell of unified, bipartisian, organized, well-informed citizen activism.

Let us Beat On until Victory is Won!!!

Thanks again to all the mash potato beaters!

 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 15:52:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was wearing a hat - if that helps identifying! (4.00 / 2)

You're right - Ivey did give a strong call to action about contacting the legislature.  Video coming, but I literally walked in the door about 10 minutes ago.

It's slow going to cut and upload, but worth getting the word out.  The TV stations are able to do 10-30 second clips, but we can put up longer videos that give more context.

I think that's really helpful for people who couldn't be there in person.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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by: countrycat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 18:34:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And I wasn't wearing a hat (0.00 / 0)

And was sitting near the top of the room on the right, in case you were sitting near me instead of countrycat.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 19:12:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, it was you (4.00 / 2)

That's where I was, the top right.  Couple of rows behind the "mashed potatos" guy.

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by: roadhowl @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 23:23:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We will be watching. (4.00 / 3)

That is the best all-purpose citizen motto I have ever seen.

Well done, roadhowl, and welcome to the fight.  This time, I know our side will win!

"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

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by: herding old cats @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 20:43:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"They're like mashed potatoes. You just have to keep beating 'em!" (4.00 / 3)

Best proverb to help us keep the faith, when dealing with our elected representatives - who, despite the best will in the world, sometimes need to be slapped toward the light...

Wow.  So much wisdom on one post.

"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

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by: herding old cats @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 20:50:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A Heartfelt THANK YOU! (4.00 / 4)

Thank you so much for keeping us posted about the meeting!  I have been going crazy!  Unfortunatly, I wasn't able to go....had to work-right now-"had to work"-isn't an understatement!  Again, thank you so very much!!!!!

Be as you wish to seem!  Socrates...

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by: save4wat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 15:22:22 PM CDT

Welcome to the conversation! (4.00 / 2)

Some have to work, some can go to Montgomery, we all share what we know -- that's a cooperative grassroots effort.  Thanks for chiming in.  Writers like countrycat and geno (and everyone else) are pretty much paid in comments, so it's doubly nice that your first comment was a thank you to someone who has worked hard to stay on top of the PACT situation.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 21:25:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Shorter version. (4.00 / 4)

.
 Just on Alabama Public Radio (top of the hour "news highlights").  PACT Board met in Montgomery.  Ivey said PACT wouldn't be "dissolved" (how nice of her to care).  And would "punt" (my word) to the State Legislature to bail them out.  In other words, state tax revenues would make up some part of the money squandered on dilbert-headed investments.

 Now that's great management:  knowing when to walk away, and knowing when to run . . .

 bg
______________

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by: BenGoshi @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 15:25:27 PM CDT

They said that? (4.00 / 2)

Well, I guess Kay Ivey did say PACT wouldn't be dissolved -- at least not right this minute -- but she darned sure indicated she wanted the authority to dissolve it included in the legislation.  She very grudgingly dropped that out of the resolution approved, but that resolution simply appoints a committee to work with the Legislature on a permanent solution.  We need to watch carefully to make sure the authority to dissolve the program doesn't slip into the language of any PACT bill.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 21:29:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes (4.00 / 2)

I am cautiously optimistic here. I think this was a good outcome, considering the possibilities. But. Important to keep your eyes on the Legislature. Important to let them know people are paying attention to the details. Because the devil is in the details. Be ready to raise some hell if it looks as though the Legislature is about to delegate the power to dissolve the program to the appointed board.

Still bugging me: Looking at the way those losses accelerated from Sept., 2007 forward. Comparing that timeline with the introduction of that securities lending program in mid-2007. Looks like too much of a coincidence to me. More specific details are needed on the assets being held, the "securities collateral," and the forward-settling mortgage-backed securities.

Need to know how much of that money is actually the result of decreases in the value of stocks. And how much is the result of decreases in the value of assets other than stocks.

Thinking it might be time to request copies of actuarial and audit reports from previous years. Haven't been able to locate them on the web.

It's more fun if you comment!

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by: geno @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 22:12:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, that's only good management (4.00 / 3)

Great management knows that:

"You don't count your money

When you're sittin' at the table

There's time enough for countin'

Once the dealin's done."

I have worked for management that did not know when to walk away, much less when to run.  Knowing when to run is a good thing.  Not the least because if you see that management is running, you assume you need to at least keep up.

"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

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by: herding old cats @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 22:02:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the meaning of grassroots is... (4.00 / 5)

The house was indeed packed today.  I could not be there for the entire meeting as I had meetings with Rep. Cam Ward about my Citizen Overdrive program.  As some of you know, Operation Keep the PACT is our first major initiative under Citizen Overdrive.  I have more meetings this week with other lawmakers and PACT is high on the list of things to discuss. I asked Cam what could be done about the appointment of only PACT board members to serve on that committee that was mentioned so I hope followup from him will allow for some options for us.

 Ms. Patti Lambert was there meeting people at the front door as they walked in.  She has done a lot of work for this issue, so please visit her group's website at www.savethepact.com.  I think it should go live Friday by what she told me.   Her Save the PACT Facebook group is well over 500 members strong in just over a week now. That is what grassroots are all about. 

BrokeSnake.com, demanding good government, one day at a time.

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by: BrokeSnake @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 16:55:27 PM CDT

Thanks for your work. Really. - nt - (4.00 / 3)

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by: BenGoshi @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 17:04:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great work, BrokeSnake! (4.00 / 3)

I wish I'd known you were there so I could have said hello.

Oh, and I was impressed that the TV cameras stayed for the entire meeting.  At the parents' meeting a few weeks ago, they stayed 30-40 minutes only.  But today, every single second got filmed.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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by: countrycat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 18:38:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

star power (4.00 / 3)

That is what having 2 potential candidates for governor will give you....full media coverage...lol.

 I'll be around, Montgomery has become my playground. 

BrokeSnake.com, demanding good government, one day at a time.

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by: BrokeSnake @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 20:58:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A big thanks! (4.00 / 2)

To Countrycat and Mooncat for reporting on this meeting. I'm looking forward to the next report.

And thanks, BrokeSnake, for attending and for your work with the legislators.

Lots of postive news here. I agree with the comments about the importance of contacting the legislators.

Welcome, Roadhowl and Save4wat!

It's more fun if you comment!

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by: geno @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 18:59:44 PM CDT

Thanks! (4.00 / 2)

Glad I found my way here!

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by: roadhowl @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 23:41:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Artur Davis' comment (4.00 / 2)

I saw Artur Davis' comments on today's meeting from the Mobile Press-Register web site.  This is the link:

http://blog.al.com/live/2009/03/davis_pact_hearing_a_failure.html

He called the meeting a "failure" because the board didn't accept "a moral obligation to the parents and students" of the PACT program.  But to my way of thinking, that's one of the few things they did do!  Then he proposes a plan to let people withdraw in exchange for a tax credit equal to their contribution.  The whole statement seemed kinda out of touch with the situation to me.  Thoughts?

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by: roadhowl @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 23:40:04 PM CDT

I didn't get the moral obligation out of the meeting (4.00 / 1)

Jim Folsom, Jr. made the strongest statement along those lines and it was very well received by the people around me, but -- and this is a big but -- there was nothing about moral obligation in the language they voted on.  Or at least I don't remember it.  And the way Boards like this function is that the motions they approve are the only official positions so they aren't bound by anything Folsom said unless they then voted to approve it.  My own view is that they are being very careful to stay far away from "moral obligation" because they are already being sued for not upholding their obligation.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 23:56:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good point (4.00 / 2)

I was thinking of Folsom's statement as well as Byrnes' motion to affirmatively reject any dissolution of the program as statements of obligation, but you're right about the official position being what is passed.  We'll have to maintain vigilance.

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by: roadhowl @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 at 00:12:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Vigilance and close contact with Legislators (4.00 / 1)

Truly, the monkey is on their back now.  The wording of the legislation will be very important.  The bills proposed by Representatives Craig Ford, Johnny Mack Morrow and friends look very straightforward right now and just address the near term funding situation.  What you want to watch out for is language that modifies the terms of the PACT program itself. 

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 at 08:18:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A resolution to the PACT problem (4.00 / 2)

may not come as soon as those affected would like if it comes from our legislature. I say that for 2 reasons.

[1] The rules under which the legislature has to operate: i.e., in order to debate, much less pass, legislation before the state budgets are passed, any legislation must first be approved on the BIR vote which, I believe, takes an affirmative vote from 3/5 of the legislators present and voting, rather than just a simple majority. For instance, yesterday, Representative Knight’s bill to remove the state sales tax from food failed on the BIR vote, while if it had been a vote on the bill itself, it had enough votes to pass. That’s assuming legislators would have voted the same way on the bill, which sometimes isn’t the case. We all know that the budgets are usually passed either in the last hours of the regular session or in a subsequent special session. A special session may be required to debate and possibly pass and PACT rescue legislation.

[2] There’s an argument supported by even some who call themselves progressives (SEE Alabama PACT @ http://retiredblogger.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/alabama-pact-2/) against using taxpayer dollars to make at least some PACT contract holders whole, so that would certainly factor into any BIR vote and possibly a vote on the bill itself.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...."      Hosea 4:6

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by: driq @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 at 08:16:19 AM CDT

Yep. People argue about all sorts of things. (4.00 / 1)

And how strongly you feel about a particular issue is often based on how much it affects you, your family, or your bank account.

For instance, I know at least one strong proponent of auto company bridge loans who had no problem at all using taxpayer money to support an industry that has been mismanaged for decades because allowing the companies to fail would have such a devastating impact on workers and communities.

Yet, without a hint of irony, this same person blames the PACT parents for taking what appeared to be the lowest risk option and prepaying their kids' college tuition.  Parents who signed a contract with the state that "guaranteed 4 years of undergraduate tuition," are treated like AIG executives whining about a bad stock market.

I'm sure that, if you're collecting a GM or Chrysler pension,  the former is more important to you.   And if you haven't paid close attention to the background information about the PACT program, then it is easy to disregard the state's responsiblity to uphold the bargain made with parents.  Especially so if you don't have kids approaching college age.

Ideally, all who call themseves progressives would be equally concerned about all citizens, no matter what their age, occupation, etc. etc.., but nobody's perfect.

What's important to stress is that there are at least two different sets of PACT contracts.  The early ones clearly guarantee tuition and make no mention of risk from investment returns.  It's like buying a futures contract in the stock market.  

Say I notice that corn is selling for $5/bushel now, but I think that in the future it's going to rise substantially.  So I buy a contract to purchase x bushels of corn in the future at $7 bushel.  Well, suppose the price has shot up to $20/bushel when the contract comes due?  The seller doesn't get to void the contract or charge more.

In the same vein, PACT parents saw that tuition was rising.  They could invest the money themselves and might get some really high returns on that investment.  Or, they could forgo the possibility of big money and purchase a contract that would guarantee tuition in the future.  The state offered us a contract and aggressively marketed it as PREPAID tuition.

Later contracts do tie tuition to investment returns, but the early ones were presented as guarantees - and there was no fine print that said different.

Maybe the naysayers enjoy feeling superior to the poor schmucks who were dumb enough to think they could trust their state government.  But I'm sure we'd all be deafened by their shouting if company bankruptcies dissolve their pensions and the government stands passively by and watches.

Sometimes, what is presented as a principled political stand is just selfishness.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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by: countrycat @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 at 09:31:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Beautiful! (0.00 / 0)

Ideally, all who call themseves progressives would be equally concerned about all citizens ...

Very nicely put -- and a nice sanity check for more arguments than this one.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 at 10:05:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]