Well, I don't know about the Forrestal Fire. (3.00 / 3)

And I have heard from his apologists that the reason he crashed five planes was that he was such a daring patriot, taking chances that others would not have. But I cannot speak to any of those stories.  What I know  about his military career is that he graduated in the lowest 1% of nis class.  Let me clarify that for those who do not understand class rankings.   In a class of almost 900, only four ranked lower that this man who would be our president.  This in spite of the fact that he had been privileged to attend the finest available private schools for his earlier education, this man who calls his opponent an elitist. 

Next, the Clark Analysis.  General Wesley Clark stated that sitting in a POW Camp, after getting shot down, is not a qualification to be a Commander-in Chief.  For stating this rather obvious fact, Clark was castigated by the McLame attack team.  Let's put it in perspective.  McCain sat there around five years, about as long as we've been holding prisoners at Gitmo.  If one of those prisoners is a native-born American citizen, the McCain theory is that such a detainee is therefore qualified to be president. Bit of a stretch, I would say.

So, this great American military hero becomes a civilian,  dumps his wife, and marries himself a money machine, so that he can run for office.  As a Senator, he orates and pontificates about his love and respect for the troops.  What troops?  The ones he thibnks don't deserve to get improved Mental Health treatment.  The ones he wants to deny new GI Bill benefits.  The ones he wants longer combat hitches for without breaks.  The ones he has voted against just about every chance he has had, while never slowing down in his lying, mealy-mouthed crap about how he loves our "brave men and women in uniform". 

The Democratic Party is, and has been, the party that has  military personnel and veterans' best interest at heart. It has just taken a while for the message to cutt through the lies, misinformation and obfuscation provided by the GOP and their media handmaidens.

I am a Untied States Veteran, and I approve this message 

 

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:04:35 AM CDT

Forrestal (0.00 / 1)

What a crock. The A-4 Skyhawk that Mccain was flying was parked on the edge of the flight deck with the nose facing inwards. That means the tail pipe was facing the ocean. There is no way a plane could be behind him unless it was hoving in mid air.

Further the Zuni rocket was fired from an F-4 in front of McCain as shown on the video of the flight deck.

Last, I am a democrat but did anyway click on the "source" for that story. Left in Alabama. if you read that crap and still posted the article you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you didn't read it you should 

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 14:52:24 PM CDT

Ahem... (0.00 / 0)

The A-4E Skyhawk that you see facing away from the flight deck is NOT the one Mccain was in. The one that McCain was in is part of the burned out wreckage that you see in the ensuing pictures.

 And FWIW, Left in Alabama didn't post this article. I did. I wasn't on deck that day and neither were you. All I know is what was reported by his crew members and the fact that he was taken off the ship with the wounded and given an immediate transfer to another ship.

~I'm outta here!!!

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by: MadisonAubie @ Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 15:08:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm not qualified to comment on the Forrestal fire (4.00 / 1)

But I ran it by a former Naval aviator and he said that story is plausible.  He also said that after losing 3 planes (one when he hit some power lines) anyone who was not the son of an Admiral and the grandson of an Admiral would have been unlikely to ever fly a military aircraft again.  The Forrestal fire was McCain's 4 lost plane.  John McCain lost a total of 5 planes in his Navy career; some people call that a reverse ace.

Don't you find it odd that McCain was immediately transferred off the Forrestal?  Patrick O'Brian describes something called a Jonah's lift in his novels of the Royal Navy in Napoleon's time -- made me wonder if his CO thought McCain might get a Jonah's lift if they didn't get him off that ship. 

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 16:51:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Forrestal Fire (4.00 / 1)

One of my close friends from Ozark, Alabama was actually on board the Forrestal at the time of the fire, and also was a Navy Pilot.  At the time the fire occurred we were moving heaven and earth to get him home because his terminally ill mother was dying.  There was speculation about McCain's involvement and a "wet start" possibly causing the rocket to fire, as well as the preferrential treatment McCain received as an Admiral's son.  Nothing, of course, was proven.

Here's something that might be interesting to pursue, however:  Is John McCain guilty of violations of the Logan Act in his recent meddling in foreign policy in Georgia?  The law itself can be read at http://www.law.cornell,edu/uacode18/isc_sec

I'm only a layman, but after reading the act, it appears to me that McCain has committed a felony.  Can any of you lawyers out there enlighten me further?

 

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by: Grace @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 11:28:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Logan Act (4.00 / 1)

Here's a working link to the Logan Act.

Y'all may or may not remember that Ronald Reagan threatened Jesse Jackson with prosecution under the Logan Act back in 1984, although nothing came of it. 

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 18:01:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

for the record (4.00 / 2)

Couple of interesting points, looking at the source page.

 

The average Obama contribution (from all personnel, not just overseas) is $360.61.  The average McCain contribution from the same cohort is $502.36. Close to what you’d expect, but Obama’s average is still high enough that, even without looking at the reports (and I don’t think FEC requires reporting of military pay grades), that’s a high average for Obama, if there aren’t a lot of higher-income officers in the mix.

 

But a lot of people make assumptions about military voting patterns that don’t necessarily hold up.  I remember having the occasion to look at South Carolina data from 2000 during the 2004 cycle.  As I was looking at a precinct map for Richland County (Columbia), Fort Jackson stood out like a sore thumb, as it was by far the largest precinct, geographically.  I happened to look over at my spreadsheet and saw that the precinct of Fort Jackson was carried by ... Al Gore!

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by: PubliusIX @ Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 22:30:35 PM CDT

I'm guessing, but (4.00 / 2)

maybe what Old Prosecutor meant by “the crap” in the source was the same thing that appalled me when I followed a few links in the source and found it contained abominable anti-Jewish rhetoric.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...."      Hosea 4:6

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by: driq @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:38:37 AM CDT

Yes... (4.00 / 1)

... I noticed that after I had used the link in my article. I don't think I would have used THAT source (There are many others) if I had followed all of the links beforehand nd I apologize if my using that link offended anyone. It was not my intent.

~I'm outta here!!!

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by: MadisonAubie @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:51:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you can't attack the message, (4.00 / 1)

Attack the link.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 11:07:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Forrestal (0.00 / 0)

Two points. First, about the fire. I was not on the Forrestal but all operations on the flight deck just prior to and during the fire were recorded by a video camera (as are all operations on board any carrier). This film is used by the Navy to train damage control people and has been shown numerous times on the History Channel (by the way you can se McCain climbing out of the fire). The nose of the Skyhawk occupied by McCain was pointed inwards which means the tail was pointed out over the edge of the deck toward the ocean. Now I do know the fire from a jet engine comes out the rear end of a jet and not the front. Further you can see the missile from the F-4 hitting the front  of the jet flown by John McCain . P

Point Two - as an old lawyer I have been taught that if you use a source to prove a point you best check your source first. The "crap" I referred to was the horrible anti-jewish rantings of the writer you used as the source of what you posted. Thanks Dri for taking the time to see for your self what kind of source Madison was using and shame on you Madison for adopting that source without doing so                                                                                                 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 18:43:11 PM CDT

Shamefully off topic but, (4.00 / 1)

What are the specific examples of anti Jewish sentiments you cite from the link in question?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 20:43:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Again O P (0.00 / 0)

Inconclusive. On the same issue, I don't believe ANYTHING that our government feeds us. Do you believe what the government tells us or what witnesses on the carrier itself tell us. And as for your "shame on you", my posting this is no different than the MSM listing Obama Nation as "Non-Fiction", when every accusation made about Obama is proven to be false and over 90% of the authors footnotes are referenced from his own fictional books.

Here's the facts that NO government manufactured propoganda can change. McCain was stupid, even back then, finishing 894th out of 899 in his class... and THIS a miltary brat whose two namesakes made a name for themselves in the military, someone who was RAISED in a military setting.

 The people who were on the carrier that day all accuse McCain of causing the fire that killed 132. He was airlifted out with the wounded and dead and given an immediate transfer, even though he had not requested one before that day. There were men on board who HAD requested transfers who weren't airlifted out.

 Not counting the planes destroyed on the Forrestal, McCain crashed 6 other planes before being captured. Who knows how many he could have crashed if he hadn't been captured. The Vietnamese would have been better off to let him go. He was more costly to us than any of them.

There have been many accusations about how McCain got preferential treatment by the Vietnamese because of his cooperation with them and the influence that his father had.

Upon his return to the States, he started dating again while still married to his first wife and the Mother of his children, the woman who stayed faithful to him while he was overseas and who fought for his release. He met a rich heiress and filed for divorce. As soon as his divorce was finalized, he married Cindy McCain and moved to Arizona into a district where the congressman was retiring. Using Cindy's money and her family's influence, he was elected to Congress.

Yep!! Sounds like another family values GOPer to me!!

Believe what you want about McCain but I think he's total scum. BTW, this doesn't reflect a TRUE military candidate, which was the real impetus of this article!!

McCAIN HAS NOT DELIVERED ON HIS PROMISES TO VETERANS

 

Union members respect Sen. John McCain’s service to our country. When will he start respecting ours? Although McCain talks about his support for veterans, he repeatedly votes against increased funding for veterans’ health care—and more. We call on John McCain to join us in supporting our veterans and working to turn around America.

McCAIN REPEATEDLY VOTED AGAINST VETERANS’ HEALTH BENEFITS

McCain Opposes the 21st Century GI Bill Because It Is Too Generous. McCain did not vote on the GI Bill that will provide better educational opportunities to veterans of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, paying full tuition at in-state schools and living expenses for those who have served at least three years since the 9/11 attacks. McCain said he opposes the bill because he thinks the generous benefits would “encourage more people to leave the military.” (S.Amdt. 4803 to H.R. 2642, Vote 137, 5/22/08; Chattanooga Times Free Press, 6/2/08; Boston Globe, 5/23/08; ABCNews.com, 5/26/08)

McCain Voted Against Increased Funding for Veterans’ Health Care. Although McCain told voters at a campaign rally that improving veterans’ health care was his top domestic priority, he voted against increasing funding for veterans’ health care in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. (Greenville News, 12/12/2007; S.Amdt. 2745 to S.C.R. 95, Vote 40, 3/10/04; Senate S.C.R. 18, Vote 55, 3/16/05; S.Amdt. 3007 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 41, 3/14/06; H.R. 1591, Vote 126, 3/29/07)

Opposed an Assured Funding Stream for Veterans’ Health Care. McCain opposed providing an assured funding stream for veterans’ health care, taking into account annual changes in veterans’ population and inflation. (S.Amdt. 3141 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 63, 3/16/06)

McCain Voted Against Adding More Than $400 Million for Veterans’ Care. McCain was one of 13 Republicans to vote against providing an additional $430 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs for outpatient care and treatment for veterans. (S.Amdt. 3642 to H.R. 4939, Vote 98, 4/26/06)

Voted Against Establishing a $1 Billion Trust Fund for Military Health Facilities. McCain voted against establishing a $1 billion trust fund to improve military health facilities by refusing to repeal tax cuts for those making more than $1 million a year. (S.Amdt. 2735 to S.Amdt. 2707 to H.R. 4297, Vote 7, 2/2/06)

McCain Opposed $500 Million for Counseling Services for Veterans with Mental Disorders. McCain voted against an amendment to appropriate $500 million annually from 2006-2010 for counseling, mental health and rehabilitation services for veterans diagnosed with mental illness, posttraumatic stress disorder or substance abuse. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)

McCain Voted in Support of Disabled Veterans Only 25 Percent of the Time from 2004-2005. While McCain claims he “has been a leading advocate” for veterans with disabilities, statistics show he supported the Disabled American Veterans’ interests only 25 percent of the time in 2004-2005. In 2006, that figure slipped to 20 percent of the time. (Project Vote Smart)

McCain Voted Against Providing Automatic Cost-of-Living Adjustments to Veterans. McCain voted against providing automatic annual cost-ofliving adjustments for certain veterans’ benefits. (S. 869, Vote 259, 11/20/91)

INCLUDING BETTER ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR GUARD AND RESERVISTS

McCain Opposed Increasing Spending on TRICARE and Giving Greater Access to National Guard and Reservists. Although his campaign website devotes a large section to veterans issues, including expanding benefits for reservists and members of the National Guard, McCain voted against increasing spending on the TRICARE program by $20.3 billion over 10 years to give members of the National Guard and Reserves and their families greater access to the health care program. The increase would be offset by a reduction in tax cuts for the wealthy. (www.johnmccain.com/Informing/ Issues/9cb5d2aa-f237-464e-9cdf-a5ad32771b9f.htm; S.Amdt. 324 to S.C.R. 23, Vote 81, 3/25/03)

McCAIN ALSO VOTED TO OUTSOURCE JOBS AT MILITARY FACILITIES

McCain Supported Outsourcing VA Jobs. McCain opposed an amendment that would have prevented the Department of Veterans Affairs from outsourcing jobs, many held by blue-collar veterans, without first giving the workers a chance to compete. (S.Amdt. 2673 to H.R. 2642, Vote 315, 9/6/07)

He Also Supported Outsourcing at Walter Reed. McCain opposed an amendment to prevent the outsourcing of 350 federal employee jobs at Walter Reed Army Medical Center—outsourcing that contributed to the scandalous treatment of veterans at Walter Reed that McCain called a “disgrace.” (S.Amdt. 4895 to H.R. 5631, Vote 234, 9/6/06; Speech to VFW in Kansas City, Mo., 4/4/08)

AND HE REPEATEDLY VOTED AGAINST FUNDING FOR THE VETERANS AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT

2003: McCain Voted Against $122.7 Billion for Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted against an appropriations bill that included $122.7 billion in fiscal 2004 for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Housing and Urban Development and other related agencies. (H.R. 2861, Vote 449, 11/12/03)

2001: McCain Voted Against $51 Billion in Veterans Funding. McCain was one of five senators to vote against the bill and seven to vote against the conference report that provided $51.1 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, as well as funding for the federal housing, environmental and emergency management agencies and NASA. (H.R. 2620, Vote 334, 11/8/01; Vote 269, 8/2/01)

2000: McCain Voted Against $47 Billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain was one of eight senators to vote against a bill that provided $47 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. (H.R. 4635, Vote 272, 10/12/00)

1999: McCain Voted Against $44.3 Billion for Veterans Programs. McCain was one of five senators to vote against a bill providing $44.3 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, plus funding for other federal agencies. (H.R. 2684, Vote 328, 10/15/99)

1996: McCain Voted Against a $13 Billion Increase in Funding for Veterans Programs. McCain voted against an amendment to increase spending on veterans programs by $13 billion. (S.C.R. 57, Vote 115, 5/16/96)

1995: McCain Voted to Underfund Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted for an appropriations bill that underfunded the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development by $8.9 billion. (H.R. 2099, Vote 470, 9/27/95)

1995: McCain Voted Against Closing Tax Loopholes to Increase Veterans Funding by $74 Million. McCain voted against eliminating tax breaks and closing tax loopholes to provide revenue to restore some of the proposed cuts in Veterans Affairs spending. (S.C.R. 13, Vote 226, 5/25/95)

1994: McCain Voted Against Funding the Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain was one of nine senators to vote against appropriating $90 billion in budget authority for the Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development departments. (H.R. 4624, Vote 306, 9/27/94)

~I'm outta here!!!

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by: MadisonAubie @ Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 06:02:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Redeye (0.00 / 0)

Click on the link to the "full story", then scroll down until you see the word "source" and click on it

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 22:10:31 PM CDT

Way back a long time ago, (4.00 / 1)

The point of this diary was that John McCain is not necessarily the candidate of the military.  Several points were made to establish that premise. Most of those points continue to have a great deal of credibility.  As I said in my first comment, I cannot speak to the Forrestal fire, because I have seen a great deal of conjecture on both sides of the question in the past and found nothing convincing on either side. 

But, I have seen no evidence to challenge the large advantage Obama seems to enjoy in contributions from deployed military.  I also know that McCain did not support the new G I Bill, while many in the Congress, who do not brag as much as he about his love for the military did support the troops on that vote. I also have never heard a word to deny his dismal academic performance at Annapolis, nor his self-admitted peccadilloes that kept him in hot water during that academic career. No one has denied that five is a pretty good number of planes to destroy.  Had they been enemy planes, he would have been an ace.

Now, there is also a suggestion that McCain's behavior as an POW was less heroic than he would have us believe.  I won't go there, because, again, I have heard supposedly authoritative accounts on both sides of the issue, and I prefer to emphasize what we do know, and what we can surmise in fairness.  One such item, in my opinion, and in the opinion of one of our highest ranking and most prominent military men, Gen. Wesley Clark:  nothing about sitting in a cell for five years qualifies one to be the leader of a great nation.  If that were the case, we would be training future presidents and prime ministers at Gitmo right now. Saying that does not denigrate his service nor minimize his heroism, if in fact he was heroic. It simply states what should be obvious to any fair-minded person, namely that the two experiences, prisoner and president, simply don't require a lot of the same skills.

In short, as a veteran, I do not consider John McCain to be some great defender of military personnel.  I consider him an opportunistic flip-flopper, who knows it's now or never and so will say or do anything to get elected.There are many more points I could make about the (very senior) Senator from Arizona, but they are outside the thrust of the original diary, so I will save them for another day.

As an added comment somewhat off-topic, I despise and reject anti-Semitism and bigotry in all forms. Having not read the source material referenced in other comments, I cannot comment on specifics, but as a rule and a way of life I reject it emphatically.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 23:14:49 PM CDT

Another reason military members (4.00 / 1)

support Obama much more than McCain with their money may be that they have heard and believe the charges made(whether true or not)by the Vets Against McCain group that he took part in preventing a full accounting for POWs and MIAs in the Senate. An example of the charges may be viewed @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0&NR=1

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...."      Hosea 4:6

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by: driq @ Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 06:30:36 AM CDT

I suppose that may be part of it, Driq, (4.00 / 1)

but I doubt that there is a strong, compelling case there that would have influenced a large number of current military in making a decision.  I personally think there is just a sense that McCain really hasn't supported them with his votes, and I think they realize that talk is cheap, but the Democtartic Party has been more supportive, when it comes time to vote on issues.

The list of votes posted earlier by a commenter would make an awfully strong argument for me if I were a deployed military person, pursuing my informed best interest in a candidate. The votes against improved health care and enhanced benefits for widows and families would be a much more compelling rationale for me that a "maybe he did or maybe he didn't" debate about POW verification. If it is true, it is telling, but, like the Forrestal debate, it isn't likely to be agreed upon, and frankly, I've seen plenty to convinvce me without those two issues.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:47:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, normboyd40, (0.00 / 0)

The POW/MIA issue is perhaps only a small part of it, but I thought it was worth mentioning because it would matter to me, being a military retiree, if I were convinced the charges against McCain are true.Note in the figures posted by MadisonAubie who has received the second most in contributions from military personnel …none other than my guy Ron Paul……and his campaign has been suspended for several weeks now. Before that, he was the leader on this tote board. I can’t decide whether that is because Paul said that if elected he would bring our troops home or because military folks, having taken an oath to protect and defend our constitution, actually know enough about the constitution to realize that invading Iraq in the way it was done was unconstitutional, as Paul had declared many times. As a constitutionalist I hope it is the latter.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...."      Hosea 4:6

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by: driq @ Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 15:19:35 PM CDT

As often happens driq, we see the same things, (0.00 / 0)

but our focus is slightly different.  I agree that the MIA issue is important, and would be to me also.  On the subject of Ron Paul, he is a non-starter for me due to the racial comments I discussed with you earlier.  There are only a couple of issues that will totally disqualify a candidate for me.  Not stem cells, not death penalty, not even abortion, because I can see some wiggle room in all these.  But racism is a deal-killer for me.  I know that many Paul followers do not think of him that way, but I read the magazine articles and his attempts to deny responsibility for them, and I can't buy it.  Remember that Obama, too opposed the war and wants to end it.

I did not mean to imply that the MIA issue was unimportant, only that I do not think it is as wll known as other issues, (and I may be wrong about that, since I am not part of the military population anymore).BTW, I did not get the email you said you were sending.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 00:04:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ron Paul link (0.00 / 0)

Here is a link to what normbody is talking about in reference to Ron Paul and racism.

 

 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 13:41:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Madison Aubie (0.00 / 0)

Let me reply point by point:

INCLUSIVE - The video I am talking about is posted on you tube. It clearly  shows what you claim is physically impossible. So it is a case of do I belive you or my own eyes - sorry you lose

ANYTHING GOVERNMENT FEEDS - lets see, who was President in 1967. LBJ I believe and on yeah he was a democrat I believe - heck of a conspiracy theory you got going there

STUPID - McCain finished low in his college class. Good point but have American voters ever shown an inclination to select the smartest person for President

ALL on Carrier - Lets see there were 5,000 men on Forrestal. I will make it easy, give me the names and ranks of just 10 who say that

6 PLANES - it was 5 last night, did McCain crash one today?

ANTI Obama - look folks if we democrats want voters to believe there is a difference between Republicans and us concerning the truth we have got to stop this "they did it too" stuff. Beyond it making us sound like second graders -as Momma used to say "two wrongs don't make a right"

FINALLY - Madison you presented seveal concrete, well documented and truthful ( not to mention persuasive) examples of McCain being anti-military. That wasn't too hard was it and you did so without appearing to endorse anti-semitic thoughts nor allowing your message to be lost in those thoughts - CONGRATS   

 

  

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 21:37:22 PM CDT

Old P (0.00 / 0)

Let me reply point by point:

INCLUSIVE - The government has the wherewithal to be very creative when it helps their own good. Remember the aerial photos and grainy videos that Colin Powell showed to the UN giving irrefutable evidence that Iraq had facilities to manufacture biological weapons and the videos showing nuke-u leer bombs being moved by truck?

ANYTHING GOVERNMENT FEEDS - Lemme see, was John McCain a Republican Senator in 1967 or the son and grandson of one of our military's leaders?

STUPID - Yeah. Electing the most stupid among us as the leader of our nation is such a brilliant idea. McCain: "I never said that" Reporter: "Sir, we have it on tape." McCain: "Well, that's not what I meant."

ALL on Carrier - You're right. I worded it WAY wrong. Many on board DON'T blame McCain and have come to his defense. As I stated in the original post, many on board DO blame him.

6 PLANES - It IS six (6) and always has been. Damned keyboard manufacturers, putting the 5 right next to the six.

ANTI Obama - You see Old P, we've tried taking the high road, but the GOP won't play fair. We try to talk about issues and they spend their resources on Obama's a Muslim, Barack HUSSEIN Obama, educated in a Muslim school, rock star, Hitler was also very popular, etc... You think taking the high road isn't political suicide, ask John "swiftboat" Kerry or even John "out-of-wedlock black baby" McCain. As long as they keep soiling you by slinging mud, there comes a point when you have to get down in the mud with them.

 FINALLY - The truly intelligent will decide who to vote for on issues such as those. However, the truly dumb among us have as much voice as the rest of us on election day.... and they don't vote on issues.

 

~I'm outta here!!!

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by: MadisonAubie @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:05:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Remember the Election of 2004 (0.00 / 0)

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 13:35:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why Won't McCain Support Our Vets? (0.00 / 0)

~I'm outta here!!!

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by: MadisonAubie @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:30:14 AM CDT