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Rep. Joe Hubbard (D) Tries To Explain HB159 Vote

by: mooncat

Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 12:04:02 PM CST


Joe HubbardHouse Minority Whip Joe Hubbard (D, Montgomery) was one of 6 Democrats to vote for HB159, setting up a statewide vote on whether millions in tax dollars should be taken from the Education Trust Fund to induce corporations to locate or remain in Alabama.

Hubbard's press release, uncut, is below the fold.   In it he stresses bipartisanship and "putting Alabamians back to work."  He also says. “The political discourse in this State has pitted jobs growth against our school children, and it’s just not so."

Maybe that is "just not so," but as the legislature portions out Alabama's very limited tax revenue, funding for education is definitely pited against funding for industrial recruitment or jobs growth.  That is the reality now (HB159 makes it explicit) and will remain the case as long as the legislature refuses to expand the revenue pie.

So my questions for Hubbard, House Minority Leader Craig Ford (who earlier explained his "yes" vote by saying that it's in the best interest of his district, which includes Goodyear) and the others who voted for HB159 are thus:

  • Is giving tax dollars to corporations in exchange for bringing jobs to Alabama or retaining jobs already here a good deal for taxpayers?  At some point the taxpayer stops breaking even on the deal and starts directly subsidizing private industry.  Where is the cost/benefit analysis and are we at or past the break even point yet?

  • Why should the statewide education budget be cut to retain Goodyear jobs in Gadsden?  This argument seems to be very much about keeping the Goodyear plant in Alabama.  That's definitely important in Etowah county and even in surrounding counties, but why should schools in Franklin county or Hale county or Baldwin county take a hit so the state can pay ransom for jobs in Gadsden?

  • Do good schools attract good jobs or vice-versa?  Why make this into a chicken or egg game between education and jobs at all?  Find a way to fund both.  And if the money has truly stretched as far as it will go, then it's obviously your constitutional duty to find additional revenue sources. 
mooncat :: Rep. Joe Hubbard (D) Tries To Explain HB159 Vote

Press release from Rep Joe Hubbard, 2/20/2012

Democrat bucks party to join Republican in passing historic jobs bill

State Representative Joe Hubbard, D-Montgomery, crossed party lines last week to help pass an historic jobs package proposed by Governor Robert Bentley.  Hubbard, the Minority Whip in the House, was one of only six Democrats in the House to vote with 60 Republicans to ensure passage of the entire jobs package.  Republicans needed 63 votes to send the set of bills to the Senate.  The final measure passed by a margin of 66-22, with 15 not voting.  Hubbard, who worked with his Republican colleagues to amend to bills, helped provide the necessary votes to get them passed.
 
“Every one of us ran on jobs,” said Hubbard.  "It’s not a Democrat or Republican issue.  Putting Alabamians back to work should be the priority of every member of this Legislature, regardless of political party.”  Hubbard recognized that some legislators have different philosophies when it comes to job growth.  “But, we’ve got to stop letting petty partisanship get in the way of sound policy,” said Hubbard.  “This is good legislation that puts Alabamians back to work, and it matters not whether it was authored by Democrats or Republicans.  It will take all of us working together for this legislation to be successful.”
 
House Bills 159 and 160, sponsored by Rep. Barry Mask, R-Wetumpka, would authorize the Governor, the Alabama Development Office, and the Alabama Industrial Development Board to offer tax incentives to attract companies to Alabama.  The incentives are based on the number of jobs created and the amount of capital expenditure invested in Alabama.  The package also offers retention incentives to help keep critical Alabama industries, like the Goodyear Tire Plant in Gadsden, from being lured away by other states.
 
The bills faced stiff opposition from the teacher’s lobby, the Alabama Education Association, which maintained that the bills would drain unlimited funds from the Education Trust Fund.  “These bills are an absolute threat to schools and every educator in the state, and it will be the beginning of the end for the Education Trust Fund,” said AEA Executive Secretary Dr. Henry Mabry.  He described the legislation as costing “hundreds of millions of dollars every year.  The cost would be billions over time.”
 
“The political discourse in this State has pitted jobs growth against our school children,” said Hubbard, “and it’s just not so.  No one wants to jeopardize our children's future, but their future tomorrow depends on job creation today.”  Hubbard maintained that job growth benefits school children by putting revenue into the Education Trust Fund as more Alabamians get back to work.  Hubbard said the revenue expended on incentives would be off-set by the sales and property taxes paid by formerly unemployed Alabamians.  “We are at a critical time in our State’s economy,” said Hubbard.  “If we have to invest some tax dollars to spur private-sector job growth, we will see a greater return on those dollars when Alabamians get back to work.  That’s a good investment.”

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Fifteen did not vote. (4.00 / 2)
Why not?

Those who didn't vote (4.00 / 2)

Apart from absence (which is always suspect for important votes) the only reasons I can come up with are genuine indecision on the issue or lack of political courage to take a vote which you know is going to piss off somebody, no matter which way you go.  Neither is very creditable. 

As much as I disagree with the 6 Dems who voted for HB159, at least they had the courage to do something.  Those who voted present or were actually absent did nothing at all.



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Sounds like Joe is getting ready to change parties... (3.33 / 3)
The plain fact is that we are stealing from money we promised to our school children in order to bail out private companies. That is inexcusable.

I think Joe is a lot smarter than that (4.00 / 1)
The ALGOP have amply demonstrated that career prospects are nil for party switchers.  Ask Parker Griffith.  Ask Tom Butler.  Ask Howard Hawk.  Ask a couple of others whose names I can't recall right now.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
You're right. I think Joe may be more useful to the GOP in his current position... (4.00 / 2)

neither of these guys are rank-and-file members facing a tough re-election campaign: they are allegedly members of the party leadership and Hubbard himself is in the position of whip. How can he ever have credibility on a close vote when he just demonstrated that he can't even "whip" himself?

His headline on his press release may be the biggest piece of BS I have ever read - Joe Hubbard can't buck party leadership because Joe Hubbard IS party leadership. It's a position he sought and accepted. And it's a position he ought to resign along with Ford. If these guys didn't want to stand with their party on tough votes - much less lead their party as their positions obligate them to do - why the hell did they seek party leadership in the first place?



[ Parent ]
Leaders don't lead by heading in the opposite direction (4.00 / 1)
How frustrating must this "leadership" be for the House Democrats who are standing up for their (Democratic) principles.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
House Minority Leader & Minority Whip (3.50 / 2)

Doesn't say a lot for party unity. The post of "whip" is vote counter and is an important position because the whip is the guy/gal who cajoles/threatens during important votes.

How can Hubbard now ask other Democrats to take courageous positions on important votes when he... well.... didn't?



There are no "safe" Republican districts. You can run but you can't hide.  - Rahm Emmanuel



My point exactly.... (4.00 / 2)
Democrats have individual agendas, individual ideas just like anyone else. But party leadership has an obligation to lead their caucus. Period. No excuses, no ifs, ands, or buts. If you want to buck your party on education, go run for ranking member on the judicial committee or something. But please don't run for party whip if you can't even whip yourself on a tough vote.

[ Parent ]
Not-voting (4.00 / 1)
We shouldn't penalize those who abstained there votes or were not present. This was a bill that needed to be *defeated* not *passed* so as long as someone did not vote Yes, they were essentially in support of education.

One thing I take issue with is are the Goodyear statements. I'm an Etowah County resident. The argument that schools in Hale and Franklin counties is a good one... But the same inverse is, why should a city and its surrounding area lose its largest employer to pay for schools across the state? 

I don't support the ETF raid, nor my representative's vote on the matter. Just a respectful difference of opinion. However I remain insistent he is the best Democrat to represent District 28 and still the most astute to be Minority Leader. But I can't fault any legislator for putting their district interests first. My argument would be that education in Gadsden is more sacrosanct than Goodyear in Gadsden, but that is another story.

But look in those areas. I would take a Joe Hubbard over a Jay Love any day. Or a Craig Ford over Phil Williams. Before we let emotions and discouraging votes lead us to think there isn't "any difference" we had all better sit and think about just how much difference there actually is.

-Cody G. Jones. Gadsden, AL


Party leadership has no excuse for abandoning the party on a tough vote. (4.00 / 2)

I'm sorry but our caucus now has absolutely zero credibility. We knew we were probably too weak to stop most Republican bills. Now we know that we are too weak to even stop GOP constitutional amendments and that the weak links are our so-called party leadership. Inexcusable.

The question is not whether these guys are better for their districts than a Republican. I don't doubt that they are. The question is how in the hell can these guys try to ever look their members of their own party in the eye and tell them "I need your vote on this" when they abandoned ship at the worst possible time?

 



[ Parent ]
Names (0.00 / 0)
I think there is a bit too much emphasis being placed on these caucus leadership positions. I agree that the ETF was wrong. But I wholeheartedly disagree that a Minority/Majority Leader/Whip has an obligation to party above district. Perhaps if Mike Hubbard was more concerned at being good to his constituents in Auburn than being a good Republican we wouldn't be in this mess now. And I think that is a lesson for both parties.

But if we're talking about possibly looking at new caucus leaders. I would suggest these voices of dissent start floating names of who they would like to see as caucus leaders.

Who of the caucus are in safe districts, can fundraise, are veteran politicians, and have been around the legislature enough to teach others. Some may not like the individual votes or the ideology of our current caucus leaders. But from my humble opinion there is no one in the caucus better fit to lead.

We know from the bingo tapes that Republicans were counting on Democrats to fight amongst themselves over party leadership and we're playing into their hands now. 2014 is a long way away until we see the political dividends of our chartered course starting to pay off. Anyone who thought we wouldn't have to swallow some tough policies with this supermajority was only fooling themselves but with a united front we can come back strong in the state house in a few years.

I'm not saying you can't disagree with any legislator's votes. I've let many of these Democrats know my dissatisfaction. But I'm not letting my dissatisfaction cloud my judgement on the most qualified to lead us back into the majority.

-Cody G. Jones. Gadsden, AL


[ Parent ]
Gadrock, I would suggest that anyone who didn't buck the party rank-and-file... (4.00 / 1)
would be an improvement over these two in party leadership. You cannot lead your party if you won't even stand with your party. Party leadership cannot be afraid of the other side hating them; that is what made Nancy Pelosi - love her or hate her - such an effective Speaker of the House. She was going to fight for her caucus until the very end. Joe Hubbard abandoned his caucus on one of the most important bills of the sessions. And he is the person who is supposed to be in charge of party discipline in the Democratic caucus. I'd rather have a committed member of the party like Patricia Todd or Demetrius Newton or Merika Coleman than a guy like Joe Hubbard any day of the week.

[ Parent ]
Winning or Ideological Purity? (4.00 / 1)
One of our calling cards is that we do not enforce strict party discipline like the Republicans. We encourage our legislators to listen more to their constituencies than to party leaders or Montgomery interests.

But I think it is an overall losing strategy to choose caucus leaders based on voting alignment. If it makes someone feel better about being a Democrat to have a Minority Leader who keeps the party in tow then go for it. What I want out of a Minority Leader is someone who wants to no longer be in the minority.

Mike Hubbard didn't become Speaker because of his voting record. He coordinated with the state party, aligned interests, vetted candidates, raised money, and targeted races. While on our end we're judging two of our top representatives on an vote (albeit a big one)

Criticism is good. But I think we have a choice between being a party of voting purity forever in the minority, or letting proven campaign winners hold the reigns and getting us the numbers so we can actually change policy in the future.

Hubbard won a Republican district in the worse year for Alabama Democrats. And Ford is a veteran in the halls of the legislature. I'm not happy with their ETF votes, but I will be when we see significant gains after 2014.


[ Parent ]
Mike Hubbard DID become party leader because of his voting record... (4.00 / 2)

Also because of his fundraising prowess and the fact that he is in a safe district. Every political party is going to have members on the fringes of their caucus who are not always with the rank-and-file of the party. But your leadership has to LEAD. They cannot break ranks and retreat. Some members are going to; that is inevitable. I am not advocating Reps. Ford or Hubbard quit their elected positions. I am advocating that they resign their position as leaders of the caucus because they have both just shown that they absolutely cannot lead. Again, Hubbard's alleged job responsibility is party discipline and he could not discipline himself to vote with the party. These guys are fine elected officials and I am all in favor of them speaking out for the party whether it be for immigration or whatever else. But they have demonstrated that they cannot perform the functions of their positions. When I do that in my job, I get fired. And these guys need to be fired from party leadership. Give them a ranking position on some important committees unrelated to education. But they can't lead the caucus anymore.



[ Parent ]
As BBC says, a safe district matters for party leaders (4.00 / 1)

Because the leadership has to be there on tough votes. If they're not -- then they aren't leading. Remember Tom Daschle as Senate Leader? Great guy, good fundraiser, knew how to work the Senate like nobody's business, but his district was red and he couldn't lead and hold his seat at the same time.

I totally hate the Will Rogers quote: I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat.  And the reason I hate it is that it's so often true.

Organization matters. You seem to be saying the leadership positions should be based on qualities other than just policy or message. I say Democrats got clobbered in 2010 because the party had no message and didn't stand for anything that voters could figure out. As long our "leaders" are voting with the Republican majority, then we're still all over the board and don't stand for anything.

I say Democrats should embrace a strong populist message and stick with it for the next 3 years -- use that as a basis to propose and argue legislation.  Stand for something.  That would help the people of Alabama and get more Democrats elected next time.



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
I agree, but who? (4.00 / 2)
Ideally, a safe-district, great-organizer, great fundraiser, would be the perfect leader in any caucus situation. But the truth of it is.... We don't have that in Alabama. Most of our veterans have relied on the big PACs to float their campaign expenses. Yes, we had lots of money but few know how to accomplish grassroots fundraising.

And considering the scope of our 2010 losses. I see only a small handful of people in good districts, good Democrats, and good organizers. To me, Ford is still the best choice when you look at the field. Now, after 2014 if he does his job well enough we might have more talent to choose from.

2010, we didn't have a message. That is true. The campaigns ran separate. Now, the caucus is more solidified than ever. And yes, I say that despite this vote.

And we have been pushing a strong, populist message. But one thing to consider.... North Alabama is the center of Alabama populism, and Gadsden is pivotal in that. A lot of educators, labor, and middle class people actually think an investment in Goodyear was the smart thing to do. I respectfully disagree, but much of the pro-HB159 sentiment from my neck of the woods isn't for a lack of populism. If anything.... It's a conflict of populism between good, union jobs and a full commitment to education.

That truly is a tough decision. Education may have taken a back seat to tax breaks for corporations with the Republicans. But with these Democrats.... I truly believe it took a backseat because good jobs were considered on the line.


[ Parent ]
No, Gadrock, the populist approach would be... (4.00 / 2)

to propose a new revenue source. And, if this really was the best bill - if it really was the only way to save Gadsden jobs - then Ford and Hubbard ought to have been able to bring along at least a majority of their fellow Democrats. But they failed and now we have a clear divide in the Dem caucus between those who support education funding and those who don't. We have a House Whip who is sending out press releases talking about how he has bucked "party leadership" when he is the second highest ranking member of his own party in the House.

That is the definition of a muddled message. That is the height of disfunction for a political party. You are really missing the point on this issue. The vote was a bad vote but individual members of the caucus can make bad votes. It is inevitable. However, party leaders have an obligation to lead their caucus. If Ford and Hubbard actually thought this bill was best for the state and was something the caucus should support, they should have whipped up the votes for it. If they didn't they shouldn't have voted for it themselves. Either way, they have shown themselves to be powerless within their own caucus. They got the worst of both worlds. They voted for a bad bill AND they abandoned their party when they were needed. I'm really sorry but these two guys need to step aside so that someone in a better position to carry the party's message can take over. 



[ Parent ]
It's just not good enough to call yourself a Democrat; (4.00 / 1)
You have to act and vote like one.  Period.

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