Church or Jail... Bay Minette, AL Gives You A "Choice!"

56 churches in this program (4.00 / 1)

The population of Bay Minette is approximately 8,000.  (Their website says 8,500 but the U.S. Census puts it much less than that.)

56 churches in this program.  This averages out to one church per 143 persons in the city limits.  Add on the churches that aren't participating, and the average is much lower.

Most of these churches will inevitably be very small.  Do they have the resources and knowledge to deal with these new visitors?

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by: Doggone @ Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 21:12:55 PM UTC

On doggone's point. Atmore (18 miles from Bay Minette), (4.00 / 1)

is much smaller.  When I moved here, there were 63 churches listed in the phone book.  At the time, it averaged out to fewer than 100 per church.

I am sure that Bay MInette's churches have no expertise in dealing with these people.  I am reminded of all the counties in Florida who use the Salvation Army as County Probation.  Clearly unconstitutional, but going on for decades.

Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten. Cree Nation Tribal Prophecy

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by: piggieheart @ Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 21:39:03 PM UTC

pick your fights (0.00 / 0)

if i were on the aclu board i'd pass on this one. last time i was in a "public" defense of ACLU was a few years ago in a barbershop -- Moody's -- in ardmore. moody is now dead and my attempt to justify the existence and work of ACLU about killed it, at least in the Ardmore area. Moody knew I had worked in washington in a previous incarnation, and he brought it up, apparently after hearing something about a task ACLU was taking on on the radio. I made the argument as best i could -- constitution, separation of church and state, jefferson's early work on virginia-kentucky religious provisions. I almost went into the treaty originated in washington's term and ratified by the US senate during adams' that states unequivically we are not a Christian nation, but i could see moody still couldn't figure out why a church group had sone something wrong enough to get in trouble over.

Surely, the judge is giving people a choice over minor transgressions -- nothing that requires heavy duty counseling. does anyone else remember the days when a judge would give a miscreant the opportunity to join the army or going to jail? i wonder if that choice is still offered. 

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by: ivan @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 10:15:03 AM UTC

This is one small cut, but (4.00 / 3)

you can kill something with one precise stroke or you can bleed it to death with a thousand cuts, but either way it's dead.

We keep justifying as common sense each small cut but they accumulate, they add up to the death of the Constitution and our rights.

Common sense is the collection of
prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

Albert Einstein

We justify the e rays and pat downs of law abiding citizens because its common sense way to keep us safe. On and on and goes the masturbatory fantasy of security.

I want the Constitution followed.  I dont want a precise stroke to kill the Constitution. I dont want a thousand cuts to kill it.

You are wrong Ivan. The ACLU is right.

 

Qui bibit, dormit; qui dormit, non peccat; qui non peccat, sanctus est; ergo qui bibit sanctus est.

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by: SaintSatinStain @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 12:01:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I am so proud of our state and my area. (4.00 / 1)

Atmore was featured by Lawrence O'Donnell in the Troy Davis story, and Bay Minette was on the morning MSNBC news today for their "Church or Jail" policy.

Ivan , i agree with SSS that you are wrong on this.  My reason is more personal.  If I was given the choice of church for a year or jail,  I would have to take jail, and that is just wrong. I know I could not sit in any local church in this area for an hour a week for a year without picking up another Disturbing the Peace charge. A choice of community service would be legitimate and effective, but sitting in a church to listen to mythology, bull crap and hypocricy is not service to the community and certainly wouldn't improve me in any way.

I wonder what Brewton might do to make the news today. Or Monroeville.

Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten. Cree Nation Tribal Prophecy

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by: piggieheart @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 14:25:39 PM UTC

Piggy, I'm concerned about your eternal soul (0.00 / 0)

and will be putting you on my prayer list.

(hehehe)

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by: melmel @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 17:15:54 PM UTC

heathen point of view (0.00 / 0)

i'm a heathen through and through but if i had a choice between jail and sitting in church for an hour every sunday for a year i'd sit in church. i'd pick one where the preacher is particularly obnoxious because my heaTHEN QUOTIENT IS SO HIGH it might attract a rolling series of thunderclaps drowning out the preacher, maybe forever. constitutional purity? Fine, but there's a real world out there, and we liberals are fighting a movement that began with religion led reaction against the anti-vietnam war demontrations and displays -- the braless (them were the days!!!)women, the free love movement, the hippies. Jerry Falwell, as low ethically as any pol in my time, aND HIS ILK CAPITALIZED ON IT, conservative pols like karl rove et al organized and refined it, and we are where we are today at least greatly because of that and partly because of our ineptness in dealing with it.

so, lofty ideals are fine, i've got a million of them, but lodfty ideals don't elect democrats. after debate before last, some guys in a local feed store were trying to get straight what the black candidate among the republicans had said about something. none had seen the debate -- they were talking about what they heard on the radio or the morning tv. i said "doesn't matter what he says -- he's not going to get the nomination." a customer paying his bill heard me, and said, "Good, last thing we need is another (N) in the white house."

That's what we're dealing with folks so we can try to figure out what to do about it, what the best tactics and strategies are, what helps and what hurts the cause, or, as they say in the hills of eastern kentucky, "we can go out on the porch, piss, and go to bed." 

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by: ivan @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 17:19:20 PM UTC

Elmer Gantry (0.00 / 0)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU2_1OgFSWY

 

 

 

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by: Doggone @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 18:46:55 PM UTC

LOL (4.00 / 1)

I went and looked up factoids on Bay Minette before I read the comments :D

For population 25 years and over in Bay Minette:

• High school or higher: 69.3%
• Bachelor's degree or higher: 15.4%
• Graduate or professional degree: 6.3%
• Unemployed: 8.1%
• 
  

Land area: 8.00 square miles.

 Estimated per capita income in 2009: $17,560

Population in July 2009: 8,342.

According to the demographic breakdown, they have about 4600 whites, 3000 blacks, one Mexican guy, and half an Asian  :D oh and a Hawaiian combed his hair there once and left evidence.

 

 

 

 

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -Churchill

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by: julie @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 22:10:15 PM UTC

One Mexican guy? (4.00 / 2)

Don't tell Scott Beason!

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by: Doggone @ Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 22:51:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This has been all over the news (4.00 / 1)

A variety of news outlets and many atheist and church/state separation organizations have reported this story.  The violation is pretty blatant.

The ACLU letter to Bay Minette officials has lots of details, legal arguments, examination of precedents, tons of information.  It is well worth taking a look.

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by: Smedley @ Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 21:06:07 PM UTC