Conversation with an Alabama Birther

Of course the problem is he is too stoopid to even understand (4.00 / 1)

a carefully delineated explanation. Then he goes into his "Yes, the rest of the country thinks we're stupid rednecks" routine.

Hey winston, I live in Alabama and think you are a stupid redneck!

Did anyone else hear Pat Buchanan doing the "Birther Mambo" on Chris Matthews' show tonight?

"BOUNCE THE BASTARDS". Piggieheart

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by: piggieheart @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 at 23:58:12 PM UTC

Guys like this caller are not the problem... (3.50 / 4)

They are a symptom of the problem. The problem is a total lack of engagement with working class whites by Democrats and progressives. I didn't see the same type of criticism of the obviously misinformed African-American woman who claimed Obama would pay all her bills or with the several Democrats who dabbled at 9/11 Truther-ism.

Here is a novel concept: stupid people vote too and plenty of them vote for Democrats. A truly stupid person can't help being stupid any more than a dog can help barking. Instead of campaigning on the kitchen table issues that could actually persuade these kind of folks to our side, Democrats (nationally but more lately in Alabama too) would rather showcase our intelectual superiority. It's a - for lack of a better word - stupid strategy.

Guys like this caller never had that mentor or that parent or that book that gave them that "aha!" moment like you and I had. They more than likely went through life with the vague hope that one day they would be able to work a tough but stable job that would provide enough for them and their family. Come to find out BOTH parties in Washington decided it would make a lot more sense to send those jobs to Mexico.

Guys like this caller have no frame of reference for a guy born in Hawaii, raised in Indonesia, and elected from Chicago named Barack Hussein Obama II. They've known African-Americans and probably worked with them. Truth be told they probably would have gotten over a black guy named John Smith born and raised in Georgia being elected president. But Barack Hussein Obama? Only Hussein they've ever heard of was probably Sadam and Obama sounds an awful lot like Osama. Not good connotations for them.

Did Obama engage with these people? No. After Super-Duper Tuesday in the Democratic primaries, Obama's attitude towards the South (especially Appalachia) could be summed up as "fuck you." That is especially true for Alabama. Obama's America consists of the swing states large enough to influence the 2012 election and the deep blue states on the fundraising circuit.

This guy is obviously dead wrong, but is it any surprise that these kinds of insane theories find support when there is a total vaccum? Bush totally ignored African-Americans and many other disenfranchised groups. Among those groups, there was much greater support for 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina conspiracy theories. Where was the New Deal 2.0 that cemented the support of this guy's parents for a generation? Where was the 21st century CCC? Or TVA? Or a true social compact to contain health care costs and universalize coverage?

I am a Democrat and I always will be. But I am also an Alabamian. I suggest that anyone and everyone who has a chance read Jim Webb's Born Fighting. It makes this argument a lot better than I have. 

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by: bluebearcat @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 00:56:11 AM UTC

I was so disappointed the Stimulus did not include a jobs program (0.00 / 0)

... similar to the CCC or WPA.  For that matter, if people are collecting unemployment benefits, why not ask them to do public service work in exchange?  They get a work history, the public gets stuff we need done.  Win-win.

Yeah, Obama hasn't done squat in terms of outreach in states like Alabama.  Guys like "Winston" probably go a long way to convincing his advisors it's money down a rat hole.  Hate it, but it's true.  Like you said,

Guys like this caller have no frame of reference for a guy born in Hawaii, raised in Indonesia, and elected from Chicago named Barack Hussein Obama II.

Maybe "Winston" would have had an easier time accepting a black guy from Georgia named John Smith, but I think the essentially racist divide and conquer strategy of splitting rural, poor, white, Southerners apart from poor, black, Southerners would still have born a hell of a lot of fruit around here.  The Planter Class programmed those buttons into the Southern psyche; they know how to push them better than anybody.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 01:54:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

But there's plenty of examples.... (3.00 / 2)

from Jimmy Carter to Ray Mabus to Jim Folsom to James Fields to Howell Heflin that those buttons are only as effective as we (we Democrats) allow them to be. Most people in Alabama now weren't alive during the civil rights movement; they weren't of voting age at the height of the Southern strategy. There is plenty of underlying racism in the suburbs and rural enclaves of Alabama, but does the average homeowner in Madison or Homewood or Prattville or Fairhope want to be thought of as racist? No. And I think that if Democrats had a message that was otherwise appealing for them, Republicans would be forced to result to more or less explicit racism. And I think most of this state would actually reject that argument at this stage.

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by: bluebearcat @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 17:29:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Message (0.00 / 0)

Democrats (at least those here) had no message last election or in 2008.  What I saw was a bunch of folks scared by the guy at the top of the ticket (or in the WH in 2010) ans trying to run on "local issues."  No message, didn't stand for anything, lost.

Yes, we need a message that appeals -- failing that we just need a message.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 22:09:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The difference is Jimmy Carter has called out the racism (0.00 / 0)

President Carter has addressed what those whom harbor those feels are (aversive) racists.  What President Carter said was the truth, plain and simple.

Those said (white) people in the suburbs should understand that people of color have expose themselves to these they aren't comfortable with on a daily basis, but if one of them were to say something out of line they would get tarred and feathered as an "angry" or "ornery" black person.  It's not always for people of color to be ones putting out the "olive branch" those people to understand when this is taught in adolescent to most of us that we have to be open minded and well rounded individuals to survive in this world.  

James Field, LOL.  They threw him under the bus with the quickness last election because he was black and Democrat in Cullman County and the election was an "assessment of the nation's black President's agenda on the Alabama Democratic Party".  Sooooooooooo....3 strikes and Fields was OUT.

  

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 18:17:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was disappointed as well, but I knew what time it was in Congress (0.00 / 0)

It wasn't time for anything of worth being allowed to pass.  There were some Democrats that were shooting darts into a nationwide jobs program like the GOP.  It's expected from jump for some in Congress to save face and play both sides of the fence on these issues because they wanted to get reelected (which didn't work), but left collateral damage in their wake.   The jobs bill was one, so was healthcare reform, ENDA, and the list goes on and on and on...

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 18:21:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I disagree (0.00 / 0)

There are individuals in this world regardless of how much direct and dedicated engagement of their sensibilities will forever harbor their dislike for our President because he is a person of color, "isn't like them", and doesn't share their worldview. You see how quick they were able to dump what's his face in Cullman County from the Alabama Legislature last November although he was a black man from Cullman County and a well-known community fixture.

On Jim Webb, he is the LAST PERSON to be speaking about how Democrats should be.  His perspective just reenforces why some people of color doesn't want to empathize with some whites especially those that shares his views from Applachia or any other part of the nation.  If you are prejustice of individuals of color because they "made it" in life and then said individuals should placate their ignorance?  HELL NO!  Jim Webb and those like should attempt to expose themselves to people of color and other walks of life because trust me, as person of color and LGBT, I'm not about bend over backwards for no ignoramous to make them feel better and cuddle their mentality after I busted ass off to get where I am in life.  Civic engagement is a two-way street not an one way.  They should be as willing and open to understand me and my perspective as much as I will be to theirs then common ground can be found.

Any modern Democrat or progressive Independent should do the same because they are going feel whatever about however regardless of how much dedication to their issues because those people are already set in their ways and have made up their minds about them.  

Progressives should NEVER fold to ignorance, idiocy, or blissful bigotry.  Also one should never become duplicitous to cuddle those types either. 

 

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 18:08:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Obama tried to get more stimulus money (4.00 / 2)

for rapid transit, renewable energy and a dozen other programs that southern politicos rejected out of hand.

Did he do all he could have?  Probably not, but he was wading against a rip tide every step he took. Winston would have been a moron, regardless of what Obama did.  Winston was obviously a moron long before 2008.

"BOUNCE THE BASTARDS". Piggieheart

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by: piggieheart @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 04:08:47 AM UTC

But Obama never proposed a simple, concrete jobs program. (3.00 / 2)

And he never sold the stimulus as a jobs program. Pelosi tried to, but she was out there all alone. Most of the public wondered WTF a "stimulus" was anyway; they wanted a JOBS BILL. Throwing a bunch of money at tiny (in the grand scheme of things) state or local mass transit programs and creating a few green tax credits in no way compares to the way FDR took the bull by the horns on infrastructure, conservation, unemployment, and poverty.

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by: bluebearcat @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 at 17:21:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your position has some merit, but you overlook the fact that (4.00 / 1)

Obama never had a workable majority in both houses nor a Republican Party willing to work for the good of the nation.

He could never have accomplished what Roosevelt did.

"BOUNCE THE BASTARDS". Piggieheart

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by: piggieheart @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 23:57:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]