Reaching Democratic Voters - Hank Sanders Robocall

Technology is making it harder to maintain a firewall (4.00 / 1)

Between messages intended for different groups.  Any robocall will inevitably be captured on someone's answering machine and distributed -- so don't be saying anything you don't want the broader audience to hear.  Ditto for mailings.  Somebody will scan that sucker and start emailing it to a bunch of other people.  

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Fri Oct 22, 2010 at 17:25:23 PM UTC

Yep. The strategy this year (4.00 / 2)

for white Democrats running in "conservative" rural districts is to campaign as if rural white Alabamians have one foot dragging off the trailer steps and one arm in a KKK robe.

So how does Hank Sanders' robocall fit with the overall strategy?  It seems insane to run two totally different campaigns inside the same party and think that neither side is going to catch on.

A huge and wonderful exception to this effort is the campaign being run by Greg Varner in SD-13.

Why the ADP isn't following his strategy statewide is beyond me.  This lowest common denominator campaign is depressing as hell and an embarrassment to the state.

There are no "safe" Republican districts. You can run but you can't hide.  - Rahm Emmanuel

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by: countrycat @ Fri Oct 22, 2010 at 17:34:25 PM UTC

Ughhh... again.... (4.00 / 3)

I have complicated reasons for wanting to call myself a Democrat. Those reasons are firm and cannot be swayed, even from within. But for all of those other moderates out there, doesnt this come across as just berating and ignorant type of campaigning? It sounds like something I would hear from a wannabe civil rights activist who has Venerable Reverand preceeding their name. The black vote is very important. More important than the vote, is actually serving the black people of Alabama with meaningful representation. Does Hank Sanders represent anyone other than a small segement of the uninformed race voting blacks? This emberrasses me to have some association with it. I know you guys get tired of me harping on the same old point, but if Democrats want to keep swapping power every four to eight years, then let Hank Sanders types keep preaching. I know that there will always be a extreme element of both parties. But those elements only account for very small percentages of the parties as a whole. 10% represenation is not what America needs. I am so concerned that the polarization will continue due to foolish actions such as the Hank Sanders campaigning phone message above. Mad as Hell, Hell no, No way in Hell, Hell freeze over! I think Hank Sanders is caught up on words that begin with H and end with ell.

I think it better to do right, even if we suffer in so doing, than to incur the reproach of our consciences and posterity.
Robert E. Lee  

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by: fundmaker @ Fri Oct 22, 2010 at 17:51:41 PM UTC

I think it's dreadful and will backfire (3.67 / 6)

but hey, when you look at all the losing candidates I've supported.... I'm the first to admit that maybe I'm not the best strategist.  However, I can say that I don't know a single undecided voter (and I do know a couple) who would be moved to vote Democratic by this.  In fact, I hope they never hear about it.

I don't think your comment is "harping on the same old point at all."  It's an opinion I agree with in this case.

We have an amazing diversity of views for a site called "Left in Alabama." I think that's healthy and makes the site a better, more informative resource.  The echo chamber effect just leads to groupthink and is the ticket to irrelevance.  Pretty much all of us here agree 90% of the time on the basics.  We diverge often on the strategies and tactics needed to achieve our goals, but that's how policies get negotiated in the real world.  Why not on a blog?

Sanders comments remind me of Jon Stewart's line:  "I may disagree with you, but I don't think you're Hitler."  And I do disagree with Bentley on a number of MAJOR issues, but I don't think he wants a return to slavery or Jim Crow.  

Saying stuff like that just makes Democrats sound a nutty as the worst elements of the GOP.

There are no "safe" Republican districts. You can run but you can't hide.  - Rahm Emmanuel

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by: countrycat @ Fri Oct 22, 2010 at 18:21:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Diversity of Views (3.33 / 3)

Not only is it true but I think it is a terrific compliment to the front pagers  (Mooncat, Countrycat, Hering Old Cats and Piggieheart) who not only tolerate diverse views but welcome them. It is also a compliment to those who post here who are willingly to engage in vigorous but cordial debate.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 01:18:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Typo (4.00 / 1)

That should have been "Herding Old cats"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 01:19:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

ego and outgo (3.50 / 4)

sanders may be egotistical but he aint stupid. maintaining himself as he does in the legislature, millions of dollars flowed to his family run non-profits with him steering the money train. ego -- try telling him his campaign robo probably cost more votes than it brought in. no problem for him -- he's going to stay in the legislature. he writes a weekly diary for us all to read (I read every word when i see it) but it lacks details. baloney sandwich for lunch but what kind of bread? mayonaise, salad dressing, both sides or just on one piece of bread?

reminds me of an old senator from louisiana years ago who would stand up on the senate floor and give a minute by minute report of what he did and what happened to him on overseas junkets. just thought of his name -- ellender. if he got afflicted with as he pronounced it "dar-rear-her" the senate was told how many rolls of toilet paper were involved in his recovery. he was what they call a "de-tail" (excuse me, i couldn't help it) man.

sanders doesn't care about the effect of the ad. doesn't care about the choice of words. sanders cares about sanders.

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by: ivan @ Fri Oct 22, 2010 at 18:58:58 PM UTC

Super Minority Distrcts (4.00 / 1)

As I have previously mentioned, one of wounds (self inflicted)  of the ADP (IMHO) was/is the creation of the Super minority districts. Not only do they remove a lot of Democratic votes from the other districts, they allow the election of legislators (see Sanders and Alvin Holmes) who can make statements like these with no risk of harming their own elections. The statements however make the ADP look as radical as the far righters.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 01:15:21 AM UTC

Super partisan districts are a problem (4.00 / 2)

IMHO, they're the reason (talking Cong. districts here) that recent Congresses have been so partisan, bitter and unwilling to find common ground for compromise.  These incumbents come from very safe districts -- both on the right and the left -- and know that their constituents will reward them for standing firm even if it means nothing is accomplished.  Likewise if they compromise they might be voted out in a primary.

As you point out, with the super minority state leg. districts -- and accompanying super right districts -- we have the same problem at the state level.  The fix is to require fairly simple and compact districts.  I believe there is a move afoot in Florida to do just that in the next redistricting.  Draw the lines where it makes sense; don't let the politicians draw lines that give themselves seats for life.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 03:10:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well (4.00 / 2)

Anyone whom has read my post history on this blog know how I feel about Hank Sanders and the ANSC, but I know what he's trying to do.  It might just work in getting those black voters whom might not have voted to get out and vote. As much as I don't like these methods...

On the flipside, there has be some rational campaigning that the non-black members of the ADP running for office that doesn't alienate black voters, whether statewide or in a partially pluralistic district.  What am I implying?  One too many times haves non-black Democratic candidatess spent so much time appealing to conservative, rural whites while pretty much ignoring the interests and concerns of their black and more racially egalitarian white constituency. For example, all the ads I've seen of all Democratic candidates running in such situations (Folsom, Sparks, etc.) have failed to advocate the removal of sales taxes on food and prescription medications.  Although Sparks has mentioned his wobbly "support" of the federal health care reform legislation, Folsom hasn't said a thing.  This pattern continues every election cycle.  

These are some of the examples of the omission of interests that other crucial voting groups to Democrats (like black voters) by candidates.  Personally speaking, that is why I give so many white Alabama Democratic officials the "side-eye" as much as I give the likes of Sanders.  You can't patronize black voters with novel "token" black people in your ads and think they will be engaged in the process.  (That's what some Republicans have started doing thinking that black voters fall for that okey-doke, and they don't...) You have to appeal to their interests as much as you do with others.   

This is the reason why I have much respect to Greg Varner and Joe Hubbard for their more neutral and inclusive campaign styles appealing towards all.  They realize that it takes appealing to everybody to win a campaign.  Now if their peers would adopt these type of campaign methods, we wouldn't have the need for unnecessary robocalls by the likes of Sanders, Reed, etc. to engage Alabama's black voters.

 

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 03:33:34 AM UTC

I forgot (4.00 / 1)

Bobby Bright's congressional campaign is very much guilty of this as well.  There are a number of black voters in Montgomery and Lowndes counties (particularly in Montgomery proper) that could be swayed to vote.  This  would guarantee a victory for in the Democratic column if their interests were engaged.  However, Bright is too busy chasing after a fickle group of voters that are more apt to giving attention to the idiocy of the T.E.A. twits.  It's all about being able to have broad appeal and some Alabama Democrats (and they aren't alone because I see this occur in most Deep Southern states).  That's the one of the main reasons why the black vote is so fickle on turnout for major elections.

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 03:43:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Basically (0.00 / 0)

Kayman what you are lamenting is the fact that Democratic nominees for statewide office do not feel a need to appeal to african american voters.

I have heard a couple of reasons  for this. I offer them up as a subject for further debate.

First that African American voters can be taken for granted as a sure Democratic vote. Therefore there is no need (read no upside) to appealing to them while there may be a downside (alienating other voters).

Second, that certain black leaders (such as Sanders and Joe Reed) can deliver black votes en masse so all you need to do is reach an agreement with those leaders, not the african american voters themselves.

What do you think? 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 16:55:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Regarding your second point (0.00 / 0)

Financial records show that candidates (esp. those endorsed) usually make rather large contributions to Alabama New South Coalition and ADC, run by Sanders and Reed respectively.  I'm looking, but not finding any campaign finance records for those organizations at the SoS website, although it is not credible that they spend no money to influence elections.  Need some sunshine on this, I think.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 18:16:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It just confirms my theory (4.00 / 1)

About the lack of regard for black voters hence why such low turnout occurs so frequently in certain races.  Also it shows why Alabama Democratic officials are losing.  States like Georgia learn that little umph from black voters might be the winning or losing of a very close election. 

 

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 22:17:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

how to appeal to voters and district borders (4.00 / 1)

the comment on district racial makeups is pertinent. aren't our congressional borders now pretty much as designed by a partisan republican federal judge, after holly pond's pride and joy gov guy hunt made sure the legislature didn't do the job. and we ended up with a huge percent of black voters compacted into one district, giving blacks one congressman, but making sure republicans could win the surrounding districts. the original reapportionment decision said districts are supposed to be compact and contiguous and as nearly equal in population as possible. compact has gone by the boards, as minority districts stretching about as wide as a country road in places are in the books. a few minority congressmen, i think, havr agreed that they dont really need all the black voters, and it would help the party if redistrcting still protected them while the excess, the surplus, went into whiter districts.

how white democrats appeal to voters? wouldn't it be a great "experiment" if a democrat with a good reputation and multi, multi millions could run a race against say aderholt self-financed, with great spots and mailers explaining why aderholt is a fraud, explaining why the gop hates single payer, and whores for giant insurance and big pharma, explains how gop talks flag and patriotism but is total whores for whoever and whatever rips off little guys. a real little guy consumer and true patriotism democratic campaign. done right, he or she would win going away, i think. but it would take a multi-multi millionaire.

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by: ivan @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 12:08:56 PM UTC

Folsom was asked about the call (0.00 / 0)

Jim Folsom says he has no responsibility for the call.

Asked what changes he would make if he wrote the script, Folsom said he would not use any four-letter words. 

The article goes on to mention a number of letters to the editor in support of Kay Ivey that take Folsom to task for removing the Confederate battle flag from the State Capitol.  The paper also asked Ivey about her stance on the battle flag and she was coy, praising the flag but stopping short of saying she would return it to the Capitol.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 14:32:36 PM UTC

Remembered anger (0.00 / 0)

I really don't know so much about Hank Sanders, but I do know about  remembered anger.  There has been a re-visiting of the Southern Strategy by national TeeVee  recently.  It is alive and well.  I cannot put this forth as fact, nor do I put it forth as excuse, but I suspect Hank Sanders had a bout of remembered anger.  Perhaps his method of venting this anger, if indeed this is what it was, was not the best method. 

This I give as a warning:  It is many years since the 1970's, but the remembered anger is still there.  The news that the Southern Strategy is alive and well plus another recent situation has caused quite a few people to remember. We can mislabel it and suffer the consequences.   

Or we can try to understand it.  Understanding will not "cure" it nor cause the reasons for it to stop, it will simply convey the message: we understand.

There is a book by Eli Weisel ( not spelled correctly, you know all know who I mean) titled "Remembered Pain".  It is a remarkable book.

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by: Socrates @ Sun Oct 24, 2010 at 02:32:51 AM UTC

Remembered anger (0.00 / 0)

I really don't know so much about Hank Sanders, but I do know about  remembered anger.  There has been a re-visiting of the Southern Strategy by national TeeVee  recently.  It is alive and well.  I cannot put this forth as fact, nor do I put it forth as excuse, but I suspect Hank Sanders had a bout of remembered anger.  Perhaps his method of venting this anger, if indeed this is what it was, was not the best method. 

This I give as a warning:  It is many years since the 1970's, but the remembered anger is still there.  The news that the Southern Strategy is alive and well plus another recent situation has caused quite a few people to remember. We can mislabel it and suffer the consequences.   

Or we can try to understand it.  Understanding will not "cure" it nor cause the reasons for it to stop, it will simply convey the message: we understand.

There is a book by Eli Weisel ( not spelled correctly, you know all know who I mean) titled "Remembered Pain".  It is a remarkable book.

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by: Socrates @ Sun Oct 24, 2010 at 02:34:11 AM UTC