Rev. Jesse Jackson Lambasts Artur Davis ...

Well.... (4.00 / 1)

I would disagree with the "can't call youself a black man" part. That smells like a litmus test.

I think that it is letting down the people of your district for what seems like personal political gain. The same could be said of the vote on Stupak or net neutrality.

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by: Dardango @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 19:09:43 PM CST

It's not a "litmus test" Dardango (0.00 / 0)

At least not to me.  To me it's a question of character.  The fact is Davis voted against the best interest of his consitutents, a large number of whom happen to be poor and minorities.  The fact is he's running for Governor of Alabama, the reddest of the red states.  The fact is he is pandering to the right (wrong) at the expense of his base.  The fact is democratic votes and support got him elected to Congress.  The fact is he is supposed to represent the wishes of his constituents.

It's not a litmus test.  It's a character test. 

Redeye tiptoeing on back up to the attic for real this time......Carry on.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 19:50:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And yet... (4.00 / 1)

While I agree with you on why he voted the way he did, not one bit of it had a damn thing to do with skin pigmentation.

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by: Almoderate @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 00:34:29 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Curious position (4.00 / 1)

The traditional african american powerbrokers bet wrong on Obama and called their power/influence into question. Can they afford to bet wrong on Davis? On the other hand Davis does not appear beholden to them so do they lose some of their influence either way?

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

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by: Old Prosecutor @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 19:22:24 PM CST

Last stop on my way back up to the attic.. (0.00 / 0)

OP, you refer to them as "The traditional african american powerbrokers" we refer to them as Field Slaves/Negroes.  I agree, Davis isn't "beholden to them", but should be, because without the "traditional african american powerbrokers" as you call them Artur Davis wouldn't be in the House. .

Grouped like dregs at the bottom of the Caucus barrel are five members whose conduct reveals them as tools for parties outside the Black community: Albert Wynn (MD) 55%, Artur Davis (AL) 40%, David Scott (GA) 35%, Sanford Bishop (GA) 32.5%, and Harold Ford Jr. (TN) 32.5.

In your culture House Slaves/Negroes would be called turncoats (Benedict Arnold).  

In your culture Field Negroes would be called patriots (Patrick Henry).

Now before anyone gets offended by the terms Slaves, Negro, Field or House, its about the BEHAVIOR not the person.  For example

Field Negro BEHAVIOR is;

(JULIUS H. HOLLIS) FOUNDER AND CEO OF THE ALLIANCE FOR DIGITAL EQUALITY.THIS BROTHER COULD HAVE STAYED IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY AND JUST WATCH HIS MONEY PILE UP. INSTEAD, HE STARTED THIS NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION TO HELP POOR PEOPLE AND PEOPLE OF COLOR GET EQUAL ACCESS TO TECHNOLOGY. NOW THAT'S FN BEHAVIOR. http://www.alliancefordigitalequality.org/about.php

 

*FN=Field Negro

House Negro BEHAVIOR is;

VOTING AGAINST THIS HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM BILL WHEN 27% OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS LIVE BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL IS HN BEHAVIOR.

*HN=House Negro

 

On my way back to the attic now for real....

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 20:25:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Time marches on... but nothing much changes (0.00 / 0)

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by: yellowdog @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 20:39:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I hear you Redeye. (0.00 / 0)

I'm not sure how to respond except to say that I think it is unfair to categorize people like this. I understand the cultural history you are referring to, but I have to believe we can get beyond the history and not pit one person against the other. 

I have heard strident feminists say that you are either lesbian or a sell-out to patriarchy. I consider myself a strident feminist and this always puzzles me. Kind of like 2 kinds of girls, the kind you date and the kind you marry.

As illuminating as this image is of field negro and house negro to those who are waging against injustice, I think the analogy doesn't always fit into every nuance of public life and service.

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by: melmel @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 20:57:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I hear you melmel (0.00 / 0)

Again, I'm not catagorizing people, I'm catagorizing BEHAVIOR.  I too hope and pray we can get beyond the history of racism and bigotry, but unless, and until, we confront and eradicate the cancer of institutional racism we won't, and can't,  move forward.  It's kind of like the Alabama Constitution, which is rooted in racism.  Until we get a new one, things are going to remain the same.

I long for the day when politicians/candidates/elected officials stop pitting one group/person/party against each other and work for the common good for ALL not some..  I long and pray for the day when candidates/elected officials don't feel as if they have to pander to the right in order to get elected.  I long for the day when voters care more about their self interest than their prejudices and their bigotry.   I long for the day we will have pragmatic and principled candidates and politicians.  I long for the day when candidates who do the right thing and stand up for what is right win.

I'm not saying the the image/analogy of the field negro and the house negro always fit into every nuance of public life and service, and I can understand why some may not understand the analogy, but in this instance the analogy is correct. A black man, voting against the affordable health care reform bill when the majority of his constituents is House Negro BEHAVIOR.  It just is.  Those who are waging against injustice know it, see it, and understand the code words.

My parents are Field Negroes.  Their parents were Field Negroes.  Their parents parents were Field Negroes and so on.  Being a Field Negro is in my DNA.  I can't help it if that offends anyone.  It's just Redeye being Redeye.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 09:44:54 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm white, as you have frequently reminded me (0.00 / 0)

As such, I find the "house negro" terminology offensive.  Perhaps if you aren't melanin challenged it's OK, but for this white person it's a great big racial red flag.  I wouldn't like a white friend saying it and I don't like you saying it either.  Discuss the behavior, condemn the behavior if you like, but leave the racial stuff somewhere else.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 21:16:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Well, I'm brown.. (4.00 / 1)

and how brown I am depends on how much sun I"ve gotten...to the point where my ethnicity (which is caucasian) has been questioned.  And sorry, Redeye, I have to agree with Mooncat.  I find these terms terribly offensive.  As many times as I've corrected, preached, ridiculed white friends and acquaintances for using racially derogarotive terms, it's just as bothersome from you.  We cannot change the terms of the conversation unless we all "clean-up" our verbiage.

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by: Gayla @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:31:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fair enough Gayla, (0.00 / 0)

As I tried to explain the term(s) Field Negro/House Negro are not directed at anyone personally,, but it is used to describe their BEHAVIOR.  I've cited examples, and I did a comparison in previous post to further explain the terminology.  I could see, and would agree with you, it would be offense if I'd used the term Field N-word or House N-word, but I don't find the terms Negro, Field, House or Slave to be offensive, or  describing someone's behavior in those terms as being offense.  Perhaps you can tell me why and what you find offensive about the term(s) to help me understand the nature of your offense.

BTW, do you find it offensive to refer to fellow commentors as a Banshee or as pathtic offensive also?  Do you think people who do that need to clean up their verbiage too?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:03:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I hope I didn't sound condescending, Redeye, (4.00 / 2)

and I do understand your points, and I basically agree with you.  It's just the language.  I also hope I didn't cause offense.  And, yes, I do find the context in which "pathetic" and "banshee" were used towards you offensive.  I wish we all would direct our comments toward the issues or the philosophies being discussed rather than each other.  And you personally were being attacked.  Your own comments were ideological, not personal, which even with terms I don't like, weren't attacking.

And this is going to sound so simplistic, but I find the terms offensive because they just give me an icky feeling andthey make me think of the "N" words and the thoughts and actions associated with their use--- and I guess that's my own burden.  We, as a society, aren't where we ought to be yet, and I think this reminds me of that.  (I'm to the verge of thinking your terminology might be a valuable prompt to make me think and remember we still have lots of work to do!).

Thanks, Redeye.  As always, I find your works thought provoking and valuable.

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by: Gayla @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 11:37:26 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank you Gayla (0.00 / 0)

And no, your comments didn't sound condescending, they sounded sincere.  I understand how hard it must be for those who were born with rights and priviledges to understand the plight of those who weren't born with the same rights and priviledges and in some cases are still fighting for equal rights. 

You don't sound simplistic either.  I understand exactly how and why you  might find the terms offensive because that's exactly how I feel about the Confederate Flag, The Heart of Dixie on my License plates, the song Dixie and the symbolism of The Azaela Trail Maids (not to be confused with the actual young women).

This conversation is the perfect example of what Attorney General Eric Holder meant when he said Americans were afraid to discuss race.  We won't bridge the racial divide unless we talk about it honestly and openly.  We won't change things by being silent.  I  believe this conversation is a beginning. 

I still don't understand why everyone was telling me how offensive my statements were, when I was talking about behavior and not persons, but don't say a mumbling word when offensive personal attacks and insults are hurled my way.  I took  your silence for agreement.  Glad to know you didn't agree.  As I've said before attack me all you want, send me to the attic all you want, it hurts my feelings but it doesn't hurt me personally.  I'm still going to speak truth to power. It's in my Field Negro DNA.

BTW, here is an example of Field Negro behavior concerning our own Dick Shelby (R. Alabama) from my inbox, names redacted to protect the innocent;

Sen. Richard Shelby spoke to most of the 1,400 lawyers at Beasley-Wilson's annual conference in Montgomery today. He received some mild applause when he announced he was going to fly back to Washington to vote against health care.

 

He didn't know what Obama should do about Afghanistan, but he hoped he would do the "right thing" and then, at the end, XXXXX XXXXXXX, the diminutive lawyer from Tuscaloosa and Jasper, stood up and started talking from the audience:

    I hope Sen. Shelby that before you go back to Washington, you have the opportunity to meet and talk with some of the many  of  the  Alabamians who are depending on you to reform health care and get them coverage.

 

 She went on without pausing about the problems in this state, a subject he avoided. An enormous roar with a standing ovation for XXXX, followed. Shelby smiled and left.

 

 Never seen so much fight in a lady lawyer outside of a courtroom. Thank you, XXXX, for being the voice for all of us. Many of the conferees came by her seat to shake her hand and thank her.    

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 18:10:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes. (0.00 / 0)

They're losing their influence either way.  It's progress.  The groundbreakers are not suited to carry the movement past the revolution stage.  Cooler, more temperate heads are needed for that.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 21:21:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Redeye's translation (0.00 / 0)

of Davis' rebuttal;

“One of the reasons that I like and admire Rev. Jesse Jackson is that 21 years ago he won 6.9 million votes and won 11 contests; seven primaries (Alabama, the District of Columbia, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico and Virginia) in the Democratic Presidential primary.  He inspired the idea that a black man like me could run a viable, effective campaign regardless of race and be judged by the content of his character and not the color of his skin.  Since I really can't defend the indefensible, the best way to respond to Rev. Jackson's criticism of me is to decline to engage in an argument with him the begins and ends in race, because his statement against me will galavanize white conservative voters.  Thanks Bro!"

I'd like to remind readers, Ron Sparks wasn't the only one to note Artur Davis was the only member of the CBC to vote against affordable health care refrom. 

I'm trying to figure out what the "crude remark" Jesse Jackson made regarding Barack Obama has to do with anything. Strike that, I figured it out. 

Redeye tiptoeing on back up to the attic.....

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 19:32:16 PM CST

You Are Pathetic (0.00 / 0)

Note to you and all others, Jesse Jackson has not and will not be relevant today or in the future.  This moron had the audacity to say something unsuprisingly stupid about the President and he is at it again.  Jackson couldnt be elected to a City Council let alone President.  He continues to be out of touch and what he says is of little note. 

As an African American I am tired of Davis turning the other cheek with has beens like Jackson.  I am ready for him to unload on Sparks, Jackson, Reed and anyone else that has no idea on how to lead and be elected. You parrot the most simplistic notions as truth.

For you to even begin the discussion about House Negroes vs. Field Negroes is comical.  You are nothing but a proponent of plantation politics in its most insideous form.  Look at the world in black and white and condem those that think about their actions.  Just be a lemming and go over the cliff. See you like being on the fringe and lob rocks via this forum but have no idea what it means to change a system from the inside out.  You desperately want a candidate aka Sparks who is unelectable and therefor irrelevant.  I would take 1,000 Davis' to one Sparks or .5 of a Jackson. 

I wished Jackson spent as much time worrying about the fatherless children he has out there as he does pontificating about nothing to the CBC.  This man is a hypocrite, a liar and a lower level political pimp.  Maybe he could shake down GM to pay for his financially and morally bankrupt Rainbow Coalition. 

I am not suprised the right Rev. had something to say so he should not be suprised that no one cares.

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 20:51:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You really hit the nail on the head. (4.00 / 1)

Jessie Jackson was irrelevant 20 years ago. He is a narcissistic opportunist. I had the joy of sitting next to him at an historic event in Montgomery. As I naively thought he was about to talk about the historic moment in Montgomery, he leaned over and asked me to move the flowers. They were obscuring the press' view of him. I have never forgotten that magic moment of clarity. He can support anyone he wants for Governor. It won't make much of a difference. 

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by: Sundog @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 22:40:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Priceless! (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for sharing that magic memory.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 22:47:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Since we are ganging up... (4.00 / 1)

I had a negative experience with him at an event in TN. Ever since then my opinion was so low it kept me from seeing any of the good things he has done. And he has done some important things and helped a lot of people.

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by: melmel @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 23:08:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Bash and smear Jesse Jackson all you want to. (0.00 / 0)

He is NOT the elected, democratic member of the House of Representatives representing Alabama's 7th district who voted against the best interest of his constiutents for political gain. The antidotal incidents you cite didn't hurt anyone.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 10:44:54 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Davis' vote didn't hurt anyone either and you need to stop pretending it did (0.00 / 0)

The bill is still moving forward.  It's in the Senate now.  Nothing the House did was going to make it move one iota faster in the Senate.

The final vote will happen some time in the future -- whether it passes or not probably still won't be determined by Artur Davis' vote -- but in the meantime he has strongly registered his objection to certain provisions.  They might get changed before the final version is hammered out.  That's how you negotiate in the political arena.  And no matter how any individual Congressperson votes, all Americans will get the benefits (at least we hope there are still benefits) of health care reform. 

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 13:07:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Who is pretending Davis' vote didn't hurt anyone? (0.00 / 0)

It may not have hurt you or me, because we have access to quality, affordable health care.  But it certainly hurt those people who don't have access to quality, affordable health care.  A lot of whom happen to live in Davis' district, and who elected him to Congress to represent them.  And it's a funny thing Davis could vote for the stimulus although it wasn't perfect, but he didn't vote for the affordable health care reform bill because it wasn't perfect?  Go figure.

This is Davis exhibiting Field Negro BEHAVIOR;

"Is it a perfect bill? Of course it's not, but for the state of Alabama, it's going to wipe out proration, potentially, and it will help a lot of people in the state who are struggling right now," he said. 

This is Davis exhibiting House Negro BEHAVIOR;

The only "no" vote came from the predictably anti-gay Artur Davis, the conservative Democrat from Birmingham who boasts an abysmal  45 percent score (PDF) by the Human Rights Campaign. Davis joined the entire Alabama congressional delegation—"including two other purported 'Democrats'" reports Birmingham Blues—to oppose the gay-inclusive legislation.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:22:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Redeye, I disagree. (4.00 / 1)

Jesse Jackson does hurt african americans by pretending to represent their best interest. He in actuality is representing his own self interests. He pretends to care about people, but, trust me, this man cares only about himself. Everything Jesse Jackson does or says is for his own gain. I cannot bear the thought of his skewering Artur Davis to keep himself in the limelight.

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by: Sundog @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 21:50:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

WTF? (0.00 / 0)

Takenoprisoners, I don't always agree with Redeye, and I don't agree with the whole house and field negro piece, but this is the second time I am calling YOU out on referring to what someone on this site has posted as "pathetic". 

When you start a post off with as much anger and vitriol as you do, people tune out.  The people above me managed to find a grain of agreement with you, but its really beyond me how they managed to do that. 

I don't speak for everyone and don't purport to, but I think that you need to find another word to describe positions that you don't agree with and end your ad hominem attacks on posters and others or you need take your opinions elsewhere.

 

9.13, 4.82, Just left of Gandhi.

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by: archangelsk @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 09:34:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank you archanglesk (0.00 / 0)

That's what I call true Field Negro Behavior.  And that's a high compliment.  Trust me.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 09:47:25 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank you redeye... (0.00 / 0)

And I do take the compliment w/ pride. :)

I've had a "run in" w/ Jessie Jackson too, and yeah he was kinda rude, but I realize what he has done for the greater good I try not to let that completely color my judgement of him.

I was really excited to meet with Nancy Pelosi two years ago, but was disappointed in how cold and unfriendly she seemed to be.  Might have been the hour we were meeting (a 7:00 am union rally on a saturday before canvassing), but I again did not let that completely enter my calculus on what I thought about her.

I have met w/ Sen. Hank Sanders and Rep. Yusuf Salaam probably 20 times each and I still have to introduce myself  and remind them of previous meetings, is it annoying, a little, but I have to remember that they are always meeting new people and might not have the same photgraphic memory I do.

Perhaps Jackson is irrelavant, there is a new guard of leaders and the Reverend and others need to perhaps recognize this and step aside, or work better to guide this new guard to be as good of leaders as they have been.  Despite this, its no reason to denegrate someone who has made some significant contributions to this nation.

 

9.13, 4.82, Just left of Gandhi.

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by: archangelsk @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 11:03:58 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wrong King (0.00 / 0)

If you’ve ever been around actors, you know the very best of them is on that stage or in that film; likewise a politician is only as good as his voting record. 

Whatever his flaws, Jesse Jackson has always been a reliable voice for progressive issues.  

Davis supporters would rather write off the entire 60s civil rights leadership as “irrelevant” and “passé has-beens,”  than read Jackson’s comment for the shorthand it was: when it comes to the King legacy, Davis is not so much Martin as he is Bernice.

"When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that's a civil rights issue. And I can't take that away from anybody." - Rev. Joseph Lowery

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by: rudyinbama @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:07:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Progressive for Whom? (0.00 / 0)

For the people of for his own financial interest.  The day Dr. King died, Jackson became unimportant. Sure he ran for President, but he was not the best and brightest or most authentic.

 Dr. King valued different opinions especially within his comunity.  He would be proud AND supportive of Davis because they had more in common than not. 

The bottom line that Davis voted based on his understanding of the bill before him withthe hope that a better piece of legislation will be carfted by both bodies.  Calm down and see what happens.

 

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:11:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Nonsense (0.00 / 0)

Flawed bill or not, King would have never passed on a chance to provide healthcare to the millions of uninsured, voted against the bailout of GM and Chrysler which paid decent union wages to the descendants of black men who fled Southern racism, said no to extending anti-discrimination law and hate crime protection to gays and lesbians, or voted to overturn mostly black Washington D.C.’s gun law.

Yes, King would have been so proud of Davis's record against human rights, union wages, and the agenda of the first black President of the United States.

Dream on.

"When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that's a civil rights issue. And I can't take that away from anybody." - Rev. Joseph Lowery

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by: rudyinbama @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 23:37:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You Are Correct...... (1.50 / 4)

From a limited point of view.  Maybe I should be specific and not lable Redeye pathetic but his comments certainly are:

- It is pathetic that this individual would carelessly describe individuals as house negroes and field negroes in 2009

- It is pathetic that this individual has no concept of history or context for his limited understanding of history

- It is pathetic that this individual pretends to be an expert on African American perspectives when by his very statements he proves he certainly is no expert.  He goes to a blog called the "Field Negro" and plagerizes the words of others in an effort to channel original voices to justify his limited understanding of history

- It is pathetic that this individual fears other African Americans that may disagree with his limited world view and perspectives

- It is pathetic this indiviudal defaults to race in every comment but always laments what the world should be

- It is pathetic that this indiviudal aka Redeye enjoys pretending to be authoritative on what constitutes "blackness" when it is doubtful he even has any understanding of what the term insinuates

Finally, since Redeye wants to go there, I will complete the journey for him.  It is clear that Redeye is worse than the master, overseer and every other class on a plantation.  He very clumsily described field and house negroes.  He is what I would call the Yard Negro, the worst form of slave on a plantation.  He is the one that keeps up desention and discord bewteen the house and field negroes.  Not brave and able as the field negro and not skilled and repsected as the house negro.

 The whole discussion as this relates to Davis is foolishness.

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:01:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And what's interesting is that I predicted this was exactly how it would go down (0.00 / 0)

I predicted that the black leadership of the state would not let Davis supplant them without a fight and that they would use all of their classic tactics to make it happen.

 Just like 2000 and 2002 except this time Davis is not running against a black candidate and cannot hope to get more than 25% of the white vote in an Alabama Democratic Primary against a candidate with a white rural base. It's just the way it is. Davis's supporters want to keep claiming that race will play no part and that it will be decided on issues and issues alone but Alabama is facing the worst economic stress since the Depression and we saw as counties that voted for Mondale and Dukakis saw Obama struggling to make 30% due entirely to race.

I said Davis made a mistake trying to run in 2010. I was up front with my belief that if the attempt was made in 2010 all hell would break lose and many things we did not want to deal with as a state would become the issues animating it.

 Alabama is Alabama and Davis should have waited it out and ran for Mayor of Birmingham (as I advocated earlier and interesting enough, with Langford's conviction he probably would have had an easy time had he went that route and would have had time to build up an executive record while giving the state a chance to evolve) 

 

 

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by: jacool @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 22:50:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Arrington is that you or Hilliard? (0.00 / 0)

Could be Sparky himself.  Davis doesn't need an "executive" record especially against someone like Sparks or the Repugs on the other side.  It would be a waste of talent for Davis to run for Mayor of Birmingham.  He is higher level material plain and simple. 

Alabama is Alabama, what a defeatist understanding. No wonder the Dem party in AL is weak. Wow

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 17:34:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm going to justify my troll rating for you... (0.00 / 0)

that was one of the most backhanded of mea culpas I have ever come across.  Again, you can differ on opinion but it's not necessary to attack the person. 

9.13, 4.82, Just left of Gandhi.

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by: archangelsk @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 09:33:53 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I uprated that comment (0.00 / 0)

Because I don't think it deserves a troll rating and I don't think it deserves to be hidden.  Backhanded mea culpa is not troll behavior. 

I don't agree with all of it, and I think the Yard Negro part is over the top -- I have repeatedly asked that we drop use of all the  ___ Negro labels at this blog and have been ignored -- but I don't think it is worthy of a donut.  Skating on thin ice, yes.  As I said, I've uprated it to unhide, not because I particularly agree with all of it.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 12:18:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

WOW, I thought I was alone (0.00 / 0)

Who felt that way about Jesse Jackson.  He is a pimp if I've ever seen one.

"It is what it is."

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by: kayman @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 20:53:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ron Sparks (0.00 / 0)

The only black candidate for governor!

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by: Brian @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 20:32:25 PM CST

You seldom make me smile, Brian (0.00 / 0)

So I'll relate a story for you.  At the party last week someone said Ron Sparks is just like Bill Clinton (he was the first black president, if you remember), a good old Southern Democrat who "knows how to talk to Alabama."  Someone across the table deadpanned, "But Bill Clinton knew grammar."  There's truth in both those opinions.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 21:10:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Two issues that this raises (4.00 / 1)

This quote from Jackson, as well as some of the comments on this thread, point to two things:

1)  The first is the question of authenticity.  What is "authentic blackness?"  Is this is question that is worth asking?  What are the markers that are used to identify authenticity? 

A quick insertion of some academic thought from the work of Victor Anderson, who I find persuasive in looking at this--the concept of authentic blackness developed in response to white racism.  The markers used to define black heroic genius, the positve characteristics that are used to mark a group identity.  The problem is that once that group is defined, those who might not share those characteristics can be cast as outsiders, which is part of Anderson's critique of this notion, arguing instead for decentralizing the importance of race and placing that with other markers of idenity.

Specifically in politics, this question manifests itself in the way African-American politicians vote as well as their rhetoric and concerns.  The Jesse Jackson quote about Obama in the campaign is a response to this.  The response to Davis's most recent vote is part of this.   Another question involved in this is this: what level of concern should African-American politicians have for issues in African-American communities?  Also, is there an African-American community that votes on specific issues, or are these voters starting to vote based upon disparate concerns?

2)   The second apsect of this quote is the generational aspect.  What is the role of Jesse Jackson and other leaders who have been warriors for civil rights issues for so many years?  In our specific case, what debt does Artur Davis owe these leaders, and how is he able to break out from that (the debt is evident in his statement because Jackson's run for President is one of those events that opened doors for future candidates).  

One final note--Gwen Ifill's The Breakthrough helps in framing these issues and is heavily recomended reading for this upcoming election.

 

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by: csduke @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 21:57:10 PM CST

One word marker (0.00 / 0)

Authenticity means to be real.  Not fake.  So the one word or marker I would use to authenticate  blackness would be real.

being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.

As in a fake Rolex and a real Rolex.

As in a fake Gucci bag and a real Gucci bag.

A real black person is someone who has not forgotten who they are, where their ancestors came from, and can identify with the plight of the historical context in which they find themselves.  They have not forgotten, nor are they ashamed of their cultural heritage.  It was the clarion call of the late great James Brown, to be unapologetically, unashamedly, black and proud.

Say it Loud!

Now we demand a chance to do things for ourserlf
We're tired of beatin' our head against the wall
And workin' for someone else
We're people, we're just like the birds and the bees
We'd rather die on our feet
Than be livin' on our knees
Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud..........

 

 

mooncat said in a previous thread something to the effect  blacks were the most loyal democratic voters.  And what have we recieved in return for our loyalty?  Nada.  Zip.  Not a damn thing.  We are thrown under bus and sent to the attic.  What to do and where to go.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 11:13:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I guess (4.00 / 2)

That why I diverge because yes I see my identity as black, but just because somebody is your skinfolk doesn't make them your kinfolk..

However, that's why I just DON'T do collective mindset when it comes to my blackness especially when it comes to politics...

"It is what it is."

---

by: kayman @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 21:12:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Do people still take Rev. Jackson seriously? (4.00 / 1)

I mean... I can't think of anything constructive that the man has done since the 1960s.  The last time he made news, he was talking about castrating Barack Obama.  The only reason this guy still gets press is because he's the left's equivallent of Sarah Palin.

---

by: Almoderate @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 00:29:43 AM CST

Almoderate, (0.00 / 0)

With all due respect, the reason Jesse Jackson get's press is because the press gives him press.  And as for as anything contstuctive he's done since the 1960's, he was being honored by the CBC (Congressional Black Caucus) in recognition of his historic run for President 21 years ago.  As far as doing anything constructive today, I would say speaking out and speaking up for the millions of unisured Americans is pretty constructive.

What's wrong with the picture?  The one who is fighting for affordable health care reform is being bashed, smashed, tarred and feathered, and the one who voted against affordable health care reform is being defended and glorified.  Huh?

Let me see if I've got this straight, It's time for the old school black leaders who fought for civil rights, equal right and human rights to STFU and STFD and let the new school black leaders who benefited from struggle take over so they can do what exactly?????

 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

---

by: Redeye @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 21:35:27 PM CST

[ Parent ]

who artur represents (4.00 / 1)

one point about artur's health care vote -- it was said in a previous comment that a congressman should vote as a majority of his constituents would wish. Not always. a congressman should vote the way he or she thinks is right for his country, his state, his district -- you can rearrange the order to fit the issue. the essential concept of "representative" isn't voting to reflect current attitudes of the constituents -- it's to vote for their greater good. would the voting rights act have passed, the public accomodations act passed, if representatives and senators voted how polls showed their constituents felt about those issues? i doubt it. 

incidentally, i didnt like artur's anti-health care vote. 

---

by: ivan @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 06:33:31 AM CST

No Profile in Courage (0.00 / 0)

You're right, he's not for his constituents, but that doesn't mean he's for some "greater good."

Judging by his wishy-washy voting record, all I can see is that he will always be a disappointment.

"When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that's a civil rights issue. And I can't take that away from anybody." - Rev. Joseph Lowery

---

by: rudyinbama @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:17:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What I can't see is how I became the bad guy. (0.00 / 0)

Maybe because I predicted Artur Davis' gubernatorial run was going to divide and conquer the democratic party. 

Davis is somewhere between a leader and a follower. Davis sponsors others’ bills and other Members of Congress cosponsor Davis’s bills.

Open Secrets.

 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

---

by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:36:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How Incorrect (0.00 / 0)

Davis has done nothing to divide an already weak party in Alabama. What he has done is bring vision, intelligence and skill in pursuing an office that deserves someone of his talent.   Maybe we can be proud as Democrats for the first time with an effective Dem in the Govs mansion.

As for your assessment about Davis' legislative achievments, you clearly forget Hope VI etc so your observations are without merit.

Why fear talent, skill and effectiveness?

---

by: Takenoprisoners @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:04:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Weak Party? (0.00 / 0)

When the overwhelming majority of county courthouses remain in Democratic hands? When 75% of elected officials in the state remain affiliated with the Democratic Party? When Democrats remain the majority party in the state? Oh yes, really weak party there.

---

by: jacool @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 22:42:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

being able to (0.00 / 0)

Control things on a town/county level is a lot different from being able to control things on a state or national level, which is why we as a party struggle so much with it. Plus the GOP has been steadily chipping away at those numbers for the past few years.

Those things are not, unfortunately, necessarily representative of a strong state party - strong local parties, yes, but those don't always translate into a powerful state force.

---

by: mediagadfly @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 03:03:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks (0.00 / 0)

For proving my point. If a party in one state had that much supposed influence, don't you think a more progressive agenda would be in play.  The legislature could not even lift the retched tax on food.  Interesting, that allot of Dems sided with Repugs. 

So yes, really weak party in AL. 

 

June 2010

---

by: Takenoprisoners @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 17:07:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Straw Man (0.00 / 0)

He doesn’t fear “talent, skill and effectiveness” – those are your words, not his.

Why do you fear anybody expressing any thought that isn't your own?

"When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that's a civil rights issue. And I can't take that away from anybody." - Rev. Joseph Lowery

---

by: rudyinbama @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 22:51:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Have No Fear (0.00 / 0)

Especially those that ignore, run from or distort clear facts.   Serious times call for serious discussions.  This prepubecent cheerleading lead by Redeye will and should be challenged whenever and whever it exists.  It is evident that he is in a small box when it comes to complex issues and defaults to traditional Dem talking points.  That's fine and on him, but the dialogue should be elevated in this and all forums. 

We can focus on policy and substance but the slander will not go unchallenged. 

---

by: Takenoprisoners @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 17:16:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Moving Forward For Alabama-Let's do that. (0.00 / 0)

Congressman Davis has often admitted in his interviews his admiration for Rev. Jackson.  It is time to move past race and engage in critical, thoughtful dialogue that moves Alabama forward.  Honoring the leaders that have sacrificed and paved the way for all Americans, we need to be able to think about practical solution and ways to implement them.  More so, we need to find and support leaders that will go against the grain to push us forward.  Artur Davis is that candidate that I truly believe is able to deliver on what Alabama needs. This is also relevant to the health care reform where he obviously wants MORE for us.  This health care reform must work for Alabama and the small businesses.  Kudos to Congressman Davis for taking a stand!!!!

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by: business4usual @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 11:53:24 AM CST

No can do business4usual (0.00 / 0)

Artur Davis hasn't proven to me that he will "go against the train to pus us forward".  Davis isn't moving forward, he's moving to the right.   People are literally dying because they don't have access to quality, affordable health care. 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

---

by: Redeye @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:23:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Only possible reply to that is.... (0.00 / 0)

AMEN

---

by: Takenoprisoners @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:05:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But is he electable? (0.00 / 0)

Davis needs between 75-80% of the black vote if not more to even narrowly win the primary because there will be a definite ceiling with the white vote given that the whites will be almost all rural and working class and considering that every rural Obama hating Republican will also be voting in that primary.

 So can Davis get that 75-80%? So far, it's not looking likely. I have been consistent. I have said all along he'll be lucky to carry the black vote and will have a hard time cracking 60%. I stand by this one. The black leadership in Alabama will never say this directly but they don't believe white Alabamians will elect a black man in 2010. They saw Obama's performance.  

They also know that their power and indeed all black political power is derived entirely on Democratic control of the legislature. They believe if Republicans take over the legislature that they'll try and swing the remaining Democratic whites into the GOP camp overtly on race and that blacks will be in Alabama's political wilderness outside of majority black counties for several decades

 I agree with the state's black leadership on all counts and that's why I see 2010 turning out to be the bloodbath that it will. More importantly, if they can take out Davis they can send a message to all aspiring black politicians in Alabama that they'll either follow along or face Davis's fate. That is what is at stake in the 2010 primary and that's why while it will be fun to watch I fear what it could mean for the party.

---

by: jacool @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 22:58:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Did you mean this how it sounds? (4.00 / 1)

More importantly, if they can take out Davis they can send a message to all aspiring black politicians in Alabama that they'll either follow along or face Davis's fate. That is what is at stake in the 2010 primary and that's why while it will be fun to watch I fear what it could mean for the party.

I read this comment to mean that the ADC leadership and possibly the other ADP leaders are quietly but actively working against Davis as a way to "protect" the personal and political power of black elected officials in Alabama who agree with the ADC and party leadership.

So, they think if Davis wins the primary, they'll be "in the political wilderness" outside Black Belt counties.

Am I the only person who finds this totaly jaw-dropping and outrageous?  Where are they now?  Their strategy seems to be circle the wagons and protect all incumbents - whether those incumbents are actually good public servants or not.

As I read it, you're saying that they're prepared to work against an intelligent, hardworking candidate who's running on a reform platform.  And not for any real policy difference but because he doesn't toe the line and run for the offices they select for him.  How much of this has to do with the fact that Davis didn't "wait his turn" and instead ran against Hilliard?  There's no high principle here.  It's payback.

The idea that ADC, etc. would lay for Davis because they see him as a way to make an example of him and "send a message" to those coming up next just tells me how truly politically and ideologically bankrupt they are.

Apparently to them it's not about regaining Democratic control of the Governor's seat or about increasing our majority with more and better Democrats.

It's a game of their own personal political power and control.  A way to ensure that up and coming black candidates will kowtow to the leadership and play the same game that's turned the Alabama Legislature into a dysfunctional entity that protect corruption and rejects transparency. 

More than anything else, it's crap like this that is pushing me towards Davis.  Because if he's willing to stand up and fight back against the political mafia you describe, I'm willing to get behind him.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

---

by: countrycat @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 07:19:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Not speaking for jacool countrycat (0.00 / 0)

But I agree 100% with his assement and assertions (yes pigs are flying).  The majority of black folks in my circle, who are not only informed voters, but take their vote seriously, do not support Artur Davis for Governor.  To them it will be the same as electing Michael Steele because he has pandered to the ahem "moderates" and alinated the "traditional democratic base"  (minorities, women,LBGT, labor).  As mcuh as I hate to quote strident Davis supporter takenoprisoners, just because somebody is your skinfolk doesn't make them your kinfolk.

For some reason Davis chose to throw as mooncat says, the most loyal democratic party voting block(s) under the bus in an attempt to gain the votes of people who probably aren't going to vote for him for the simple reason he's a black man.  At the same time he's counting on the traditional base to vote on him just because he's a black man. 

I don't know why you hold the ADC (Alabama Democratic Conference) and it's leadership in such contempt, but as a member of the ADC I find their work valuable and consider it an asset to the democratic party not a liability.  I also admire and respect it's leadership for their principled committment to the rights of the least and the left out.  Perhaps if you read the history of the ADC it will give you some insight into our agenda and it's leaders.  You call them "the political mafia", I call them Field Negroes.

The Alabama Democratic Conference (the Black Political Caucus of Alabama) was founded in 1960 by a small group of black citizens who banded together that year in an effort to influence black voters to support the Democratic presidential ticket of John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. Among the founders were: Arthur Shores, a highly respected civil rights lawyer in Birmingham; Rufus Lewis, a successful Montgomery businessman and former coach at Alabama State University; Dr. C. G. Gomillion, a college professor and activist at Tuskegee Institute; Q. D. Adams a gifted salesman and civic promoter from Gadsden; Isom Clemon, a powerful labor leader among Mobile County longshoresmen; and Beulah Johnson, a feisty Tuskegee educator

Redeye's translation of jacools comment;

More importantly, if they can take out Davis they can send a message to all aspiring black politicians in Alabama that they will think twice about selling out the base (women, labor, LBGTS, educators, minorities) and pandering to the right, or face Davis.

I'm not a black leader, and I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself, but my greatest fear is that Artur Davis will be elected Governor and if he does that will be bad news for the "traditional base". 

As jacool said that is what is at stake in the 2010 Democratic primary.

You said Davis is standing up and fighting back against the "political mafia", I say I guess it depends on who/what the "political mafia" IS.

If it's not cool for Parker Griffith and Bobby Bright to vote against the party, it's not cool for Artur Davis to vote against the party. 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

---

by: Redeye @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 13:17:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

So they want to take down Davis because of his health care vote? (4.00 / 1)

They've been laying for him much longer than that and conveniently seem to have overlooked his other progressive votes on Lilly Ledbetter, CHIP, and the stimulus this term.

I don't hold ADC members in contempt, but the power structure of both the ADC and ADP appears to me to be more interested in holding on to personal power at the expense of the best interests of the state.  Certainly, reasonable people can disagree and do it amicably, but that's how I see it.

Your interpretation of jacool's remarks does shed new light on them.  But that's not what he said.  He protrays the disagreement as the old guard keeping the youngsters in line.

As I said, I think a lot of the animosity is payback for Davis vs. Hilliard.  Davis has been unwilling to wait his turn and take instructions from the leadership.

Being an inveterate troublemaker myself, I like that quality in a person.  That's why I like Davis, you, Mooncat, Piggieheart, etc... can't list everyone on the blog, but fill in your names!

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

---

by: countrycat @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 14:05:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

First of all my dear friend countrycat, (0.00 / 0)

No one, and I repeat no one, wants to "take Davis down" because of his healthcare vote or any of his other votes because it's not about taking Davis down aka putting him in his place.  It's about his political philosophy and his political point of view.  It's about his character.

Voting against the interest of those who put you in office is not cool and should never be rewarded or excused. I'm all for "inveterate troublemakers and troublemaking", but I wouldn't call Davis an inveterate troublemaker like me, you, mooncat, piggieheart, etc., but I will agree he's making trouble.  The trouble is, he making trouble for women, minorities, labor, LBGT's, the unisured, the poor and educators.

I can assure you, There is no animosity or childish payback for Davis vs. Hillard.  There is no such thing as waiting ones turn and waiting for instructions from leadership.  You must have us confused with the gop.:)  As the young people say, that's not how we roll. 

I want someone who is willing to stand up for a womans right to chose to have a safe and legal abortion.  I want someone who is willing to stand up for civil rights, equal rights and human rights.  I want someone who is willing to stand up for labor.  I want someone who is willing to stand up for equal rights for  our LBGT sisters and brothers.  I want someone who is willing to stand up for what is right (no pun) and who has courage of conviction. I want someone who believes and fights for the right of every American to have access to quality, affordable health care.  I want someone who believes and fights for every student to have access to quality public schools.  Davis has done none of those things in his capacity as a United States Congressman, and there is no reason for me to assume he will do those things as the governor of the reddest of the red states IF he is elected.  Sure he  voted for Lily Ledbetter and SCHIP, and the stimulus, but that's just not enough for me.  I want it all.

Sorry.

Not.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 16:45:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Facts please? (4.00 / 1)

Redeye, fortunately for us, Alabama voters (both black and white and other) are more than "one issue" voters.  That's my personal opinion.

People are dying for several reasons so I don't see your point.  If you read his reasons on supporting a senate version of the bill, it may make more sense.
I'm not knocking the state ADC but if you follow their lead, you might end up in a big mess based on their previous record.  I'm sure you (being an active ADC member) were at the meeting where they suspended the rules to unanimously endorse HRC despite the objections (unheard of in parliamentary procedure).

Let's find something that does work for Alabama and move forward or would you, Redeye, just prefer a good old Republican in the office?  

Also, let me know about those poll numbers that you refer to.

---

by: business4usual @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 10:29:10 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I agree business4usual (0.00 / 0)

Alabama voters (black,white, other) are more than one issue voters.  They are important issue voters.  If a womans' right to chose is important to voters, they vote for candidates who share their point of view.  If LBGT equality is important to voters, they vote for candidates who share their point of view.  If having access to affordable health care is important to voters they vote for candidates who share their point of view. etc.

People are dying for several reasons so you don't see my point?  Huh? 

The ADC doesn't have a previous record of voting against Alabamians having access to quality affordable health care reform.  The ADC doesn't have a previous record of being anti choice, anti labor, anti education anti minorities, anti LBGT or any other big mess that I'm aware of.  They suspended the rules and endorsed Hillary Clinton but that didn't deny anyone equal rights, human rights or civil rights.

I'm all for finding someone who can and will move Alabama forward business4usual, republican or democrat.

What poll numbers are you refering to that I was referring to?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 10:52:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

All it is a power struggle (4.00 / 1)

They want it all, but they can't relent on anything when it comes to power.  This is what's going to truly run the party into the ground if it isn't taken any cThat's why I don't buy into partisan politics because it's so damn stupid and I respect the politico for their ideology and principles more than party affiliation.

Other than that, I do agree 100% about your perspective of things.

"It is what it is."

---

by: kayman @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 18:57:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Uh, incorrect (0.00 / 0)

That was me that said that line about "just because somebody is your skinfolk doesn't make them your kinfolk".  Please correctly quote who said what next time.

"It is what it is."

---

by: kayman @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 18:51:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Please accept my sincere and heartfelt apology kayman (4.00 / 1)

For some reason I get you and takenoprisoners confused. :)

Apology to takenoprisoners too.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

---

by: Redeye @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 21:22:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If that is their strategy (4.00 / 1)

They've already lost.  If you think alienating the moderate base is the way to win any election by making sure any "outsiders" aren't going to win then they will inadverted lose a younger generation of both black and white voters. 

Honestly, IMO anyone that listens to Joe Reed is a damn fool because this is the same idiot that gave Hillary Clinton an endorsement without even listening to Obama's endorsement in the 2008 Democratic Primary.  He is the posterchild of the Alabama Old Guard and I'm still laughing at his inability to predict anything as up in air as an election with a black candidate that doesn't bow to his wishes. 

One of the reasons why before the election of Obama young voters didn't vote in elections in droves was because the Old Guard blacks and white establishment inside the Democratic party made any who was of different mindset feel disenfranchised or politically speaking 'worthless".  If that is the strategy as you allege then they are going to be in for huge losses for the next 2 decades anyways for stupidity and ignorance on their party for inability to accept change. 

The Old Guard are going to lose power one or another, but it's wiser to relinquish their power to the next generation rathen than lose it to more politically savy and 9 out of 10 times socially conservative Republicans.  

However, it's their funeral regardless...

"It is what it is."

---

by: kayman @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 11:14:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Old guard will lose power one way or another ... (4.00 / 1)

Yeah, it's their funeral, but if they lose it to the socially conservative Republicans, it'll be our funeral, too.  That's why it behooves us to support truly progressive Democrats wherever we find them -- and that includes party positions. 

In the little clique that is Inside Montgomery politics, Democrats and Republicans have much more in common than Insiders and Outsiders do.  Davis is an Outsider.  Obama was also an Outsider -- many Insiders had ties to the Clintons, thus the rules suspension. Patricia Todd was an Outsider so they tried to overturn her primary win.  There will be more Outsiders on the ballot this year and it is important that progressives recognize what they represent: a New Order of Business in Montgomery.

Work harder and work smarter!

---

by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 12:31:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Light bulb moment (0.00 / 0)

You want the Old Guard (Field Negoes) who have fought for justice and equality and still fight for justice and equality to be replace by the New Guard (House Negroes) who will go along to get along, STFU and betray their constituents. F that.  New Order of business in Montgomery by foot.  Artur Davis is not a progressive, nor does he represent a progressive political philosophy.  Progressives voted for affordable health care reform.  Progressives voted for the Hate Crimes bill.  Progressive don't tell other progressives to shut and and stop whining about things that offend them.  Progressives don't betray their base for political gain. 

Davis is hardly an outsider.  An outsider never could have been elected to the United States Congress. 

Redeye tiptoeing on back up to the attic....

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 18:17:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't appreciate this characterization of my "wants" (4.00 / 1)

You want the Old Guard (Field Negoes) who have fought for justice and equality and still fight for justice and equality to be replace by the New Guard (House Negroes) who will go along to get along, STFU and betray their constituents.

I want nothing of the kind.  And, seeing as you aren't me, it's extremely discourteous to presume you can tell others what I want.  Speak for yourself and trust that the rest of us will do the same.

The Old Guard will be replaced -- time and history guarantee it.  The question is who will replace them -- better Democrats or socially conservative Republicans?  I want better Democrats.  Patricia Todd is one, and believe me, the Old Guard tried very hard to keep her out -- thankfully the will of the voters prevailed.

Your final statement is not supported by the facts.  Davis ran against the establishment in 2002 and unseated a sitting Congressman who had tremendous institutional support.  Hilliard was a consummate insider.

Hilliard was reprimanded by the House Ethics Committee for dipping into campaign funds for personal use. And, perhaps most important, some constituents in the desperately poor district--the third-poorest in the United States--felt that Hilliard had little to show for his ten years in Congress besides a failed bill he sponsored that would have required the inspection of rabbit meat. Davis hit Hilliard with a television advertisement showing a rabbit's face superimposed with the text "Send Earl Hilliard back to Washington: Why?"

If you have some evidence that Davis is part of the Montgomery power structure, please reveal it, until then I continue to assert that he is an outsider. 

Work harder and work smarter!

---

by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 19:42:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Outsiders can win. (4.00 / 1)

Davis is hardly an outsider.  An outsider never could have been elected to the United States Congress.  

NO. That's just not not true.  And we hope that would never be true because it's the death knell for change and progress ideas.

Think of the outsiders who got elected in 2006 and 2008 to Congress! They're the netroots candidates who the DCCC spurned but people like us sent money and - in many cases - they won!

And we may look at Davis now and he seems the smooth, consummate DC insider, but he was stepping out of his place when he ran against Hilliard in 2000.

Don't believe me?  Here's what Earl Hilliard had to say and Davis' response:

“You should have run for city council, then run for county commission or state rep, then state senator and then run for Congress. You’re trying to start at the top."

And I said, perhaps a bit flippantly, "But you’re thinking — there’s 435 parts. That’s not the top.’”

Rep. Hilliard also questioned whether Davis was "black enough" to represent the district.  King Cockfight has weighed in recently on that subject as well.

And in 2002, after Davis won, it was a big deal that a sitting congressman who had campaign support from the Congressional Black Caucus and Rev. Al Sharpton still lost in the runoff.  From the New York Times:

The support of the Jefferson County Citizens Coalition, the most powerful local organization of black Democrats, once all but guaranteed the victory of its chosen candidate, from coroner to congressman.

On Saturday, though, the group met for an increasingly common ritual, an election post-mortem on why someone else won. Members discussed why a 34-year-old black newcomer named Artur Davis had beaten an Alabama institution, Earl F. Hilliard, 60, Alabama's first black congressman since Reconstruction.

They said Mr. Davis had too much money in his campaign for the June 25 Democratic primary runoff. They said they could not answer all the attack advertisements, financed by contributors from out of state angered by Mr. Hilliard's criticism of Israel. They said they did not get out enough black voters to offset votes in ''white boxes'' -- precincts -- that were more supportive of Mr. Davis.

Then they looked at the returns. Their voters got out, all right. They just weren't theirs anymore.

''People were not aware of the fact that the black vote really did put Artur Davis in office,'' former Mayor Richard Arrington Jr. of Birmingham, a veteran leader of the coalition, said later. Precinct after precinct that once went Mr. Hilliard's way swung to Mr. Davis.

''My box went for Artur,'' Mr. Arrington said, sounding a bit amazed about his own precinct.

Davis ran against the political establishment in his district and he won.  He's been in office now for almost a decade, which puts him periously close to being the "establishment" himself.  But in this run for governer, he's once again taking on the political establishment - it's just this time is a different office and different players.

As advisor, Daryl Perkins, said in July:

Daryl Perkins, the senior political director for the Davis campaign, said the split between his candidate and members of the Democratic establishment is "very real," but that it will not be fatal for the campaign.

Whether it is or isn't remains to be seen, but I do think it's true that Davis is running a type of insurgent campaign - at least it's considered outside the norm for Alabama politics.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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by: countrycat @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 19:58:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Enough Said (0.00 / 0)

Excellent post and hits at the heart of this entire debate.  Davis will go door to door and not wait for Arrington or ADC to let him in.  That is what I want in a Governor. 

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 17:25:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Congratulations Ron Sparks (0.00 / 0)

Congrats Ron Sparks-you have officially alienated your potential black support by commenting on that issue.  Sometimes you gotta know when to stay in your lane.

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by: business4usual @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 07:58:14 AM CST