Sparks Calls on Davis to Support Health Care Bill, Public Option

Davis is opening the door for Sparks if he votes against (4.00 / 1)

Perhaps he will change his mind.  

Remember his current constituents are the 7th Congressional District folks, not the entire state.

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by: gradyw @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 15:16:58 PM CST

I called (4.00 / 2)

the DC office and left my thoughts.  Could not get an answer at the Bham office.  Please folks, make these calls.  I understand Davis' reservations, even though I don't agree with him, but if Democrats don't stand together and get this passed now....Differences can be worked out in conference once HCR is passed!

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by: Gayla @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 15:39:00 PM CST

Is the the Ron Sparks... (4.00 / 1)

Is this the Ron Sparks who is claiming he supports health care to gain support, or the Ron Sparks who told a room of businesspersons in the state he opposed the bill in the House this past August?

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by: csduke @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 16:05:35 PM CST

good question but i'm going to have a hard time supporting Artur (4.00 / 1)

if he votes against the Bill as expected. it's going to be a very close vote based on some of the whip counting going on.

AL-07 is one of the poorest districts in the country. Davis cannot justify voting against this bill especially when even a number of Blue Dogs are voting for it. This is nothing that he should be posturing with, it's way to important.  

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by: gradyw @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 17:00:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I believe that's because that bill was so watered down at the time... (4.00 / 1)

but at least he's supporting the bill in final passage.  And don't give me that "he's not the one in congress" crap.  The vast majority of Davis' current constituents support this bill; he is running for governor but then again so is Sparks.

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by: bluebearcat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 17:03:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You are extremely charitable. (0.00 / 0)

I don't believe Sparks had read the bill at that time or has read it now.  He doesn't have to for the simple reason that he doesn't have to make a decision on it. He finessed his answer in front of a very conservative audience. Now there is a political advantage to speaking like a progressive Democrat -- which may have been his personal feeling all along -- and he's doing it. The big hurdle for Ron Sparks is winning the Democratic primary, the bigger hurdle for Davis is winning the general.  Those political calculations almost certainly affect what both these men do and say about many issues, even (or especially) one as important as HCR.  It's unsavory to watch, but so is sausage making.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 18:35:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The questions for Sparks on this issue (0.00 / 0)

1) Does Sparks know about the differences between the various health care bills in both the House and the Senate? Go back to Davis's statement in regards to why he opposes HR 3692.  In that statement, he addresses why he thinks the Baccus bill coming from the Senate Finance Committee is a better bill to pursue.  Davis disagrees with the employer mandate in this bill (arguing it could cause companies to drop coverage) as well as the structure of the public option in the House bill.  It raises the question of what form of public option is worth supporting?  Does Sparks recognize these differences.

2)  Can Sparks address how the current House bill he is urging Davis to support will impact small business?  Remember, this is something he set forth in his statement in Point Clear--provisions where the federal government will not put small businesses out of business.

 

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by: csduke @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 19:09:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

At a guess, "no" and "no." (0.00 / 0)

He doesn't have to know those things or explain them -- because he doesn't have a vote. He chose to use HCR to differentiate himself from Davis, not sure why he waited until after the BCA forum at Point Clear. He knows Davis is not going to vote for HCR and he doesn't have to actually vote so it's an easy discriminator to exploit. No cost to Sparks at all.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:21:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Guys it's one thing to support Davis... (4.00 / 1)

it's quite another to become an apologist for him when he opposes the number one domestic priority for the progressive movement.  Joseph Cao of Louisiana stood against his party and voted "yes;"  Artur Davis stood against his constituents and voted "no."

The bottom line is that Artur Davis and Ron Sparks are both running as Democrats for governor of a very conservative state.  I have been unimpressed with the Sparks campaign so far but the fact is that on this tough issue where the politically difficult choice was to support the progressive ideal, Ron Sparks is standing up for progress.  Sparks has run a god awful campaign so far but he's had a good week.  I hope he hammers Davis' butt for this the rest of the campaign.  I hope he does it so much that Davis votes for final passage of the reconciled bill.

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by: bluebearcat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:24:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sparks should do that (0.00 / 0)

And it won't cost him much at all because he doesn't have to go on the record with a vote. That may come across as cynical, but it's the actual political calculation being made. Sparks hammering him or not, I wouldn't be surprised if Davis voted for the final bill to come out of conference.  He's been signaling for a month or so that the Senate bill was much better, in his opinion, and it's at least even odds those statements were intended to set up a scenario where he could support the final bill -- which may be lacking some features that he doesn't like.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:38:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But he's on record as supporting it? (4.00 / 1)

Davis (or the GOP) can use Sparks' statement on this issue against just as easily as they could have used an on-the-record vote.  He said explicitly that he would have voted yes on this particular version of the House bill.  It's bad enough that the bill was in danger of not passing tonight because of Blue Dog dems from very conservative districts; it's a lot worse that it was in danger of not passing because of a congressman from an overwhelmingly Democratic district throwing his own constituents under the bus for his own political purposes.  I've liked a lot about Davis but I've always been bothered by his habit of throwing Alabama teachers under the bus whenever politically expedient.  On the other hand, I've been thoroughly unimpressed with Ron Sparks so far for the most part.  I'm still not sure if I will support Sparks but I do know that after this I cannot see myself under any circumstances supporting Artur Davis in a Democratic primary.

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by: bluebearcat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:52:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Davis did put it in jeopardy (0.00 / 0)

one of the votes was unexpected - Republican Joseph Cao

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by: gradyw @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:00:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Cao is a real Republican (0.00 / 0)

He cares more about the voters than he does his party.  

This is History.  And as usual republicans and Southern DINO's are on the wrong side of history.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:03:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ron Sparks is not the sitting United States Congressman from the 7th distict of Alabama csduke. (0.00 / 0)

So it really doesn't matter what he may or may not have told a group of businessmen in the state.

Ron Sparks is not the sitting United States Congressman representing the 7th district where a majority of his constituents don't have access to quality, affordable health insurance.

Ron Sparks is not the sitting United States Congressman resprenting the 7th district which President Obama carried in the 2008 election.

If Ron Sparks were the sitting United States Congressman from the 7th district and were about to vote against wishes and the insterest of the people he was elected to represent I would be talking about his Donkey too.

This is not about Ron Sparks.  It's about the sitting United States Congressman from the 7th district Artur Davis (DINO), who has access to quality, affordable health care thanks to the voters in the 7th district he's about to gang bang.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 20:05:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sparks might not be voting on this in Congress (0.00 / 0)

However, he is making a campaign argument for voters to trust him.  Even the other night at the Auburn forum, Sparks stated that he was for honesty and will do what he says when he is elected governor.  However, his statements all over the map on heath care can be added to that list that make me wonder if Sparks do what he says?  

I'm wondering if Sparks is an opportunist on this issue, and if that will be how he is on other issues as well (especially as I am waiting for him to offer more details on what he will do other than fight for gambling).

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by: csduke @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 20:48:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No MIGHT Not about it csduke (0.00 / 0)

Sparks is not a and will not be voting on the affordable health care reform act tonight.

I wondering how Davis expects the voters in his district to support him after he votes against their self interest, again?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:01:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Typo, (0.00 / 0)

I'm wondering how Davis expects the voters in his district to support him after he votes against their self interest, again?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:03:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

As long as it passes, it won't really matter (0.00 / 0)

I know that isn't what you want to hear, but if he can preserve his viability as a candidate and the bill still passes, the vast majority -- even of Democrats in AL-07 -- won't hold it against him.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:18:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Uh, (0.00 / 0)

How is he going to perserve his viability as a candidate exactly?  Raise more money?  And are you saying democrats in 07 won't remember that he voted against the affordable health care reform act or that they won't know he voted against the affordable health care reform act and for the Stupak amendment?  

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:07:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Neither (0.00 / 0)

I'm saying it will be neither here nor there to the majority of folks voting in the Democratic primary -- as long as we get health care reform.  In other words, Democrats need to deliver health care reform or the sky will fall, but if they do deliver all Democrats will get some benefit, even the ones who voted against it.  

That is a hard truth to swallow for some folks, but it's the way this works.  The party in power needs to get things done to stay in power -- competence and ability to govern matter.  Health care reform has become synonymous with the Democratic Agenda -- we have to get this done. The margin doesn't matter much, although I'm very thankful it wasn't a bare 218-217 vote and getting one Repub. to vote "yes" was gravy.

On to the Senate!

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:18:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What I'm asking is (0.00 / 0)

Who is going to vote for Artur Davis for Governor of Alabama after tonight?  

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:24:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Enough to prevail in 2010 (0.00 / 0)

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by: Takenoprisoners @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 06:32:54 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Me. (4.00 / 1)

Because I'm tired of the good old boy network.

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by: Gayla @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 18:56:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Let me see if I've got this straight Gayla, (0.00 / 0)

You are still going to vote and support Artur Davis because you are tired of the "good old boy network"?  Davis voted against poor women's right to have a safe legal abortion in addition to voting against the affordable health care reform act and the hate crimes legislation.  He's voted more in favor of the good old boys than not IMHO.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 21:04:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Different set of good old boys (0.00 / 0)

Gayla is talking about the Montgomery crowd which you'd do well to look into.  I wouldn't have any qualms voting for Davis as a result of his vote on this bill. I'm going to evaluate the candidates before us on their fitness for the job of Governor of Alabama and, unlike some folks here, I accept that well intentioned people can sometimes disagree.  I disagree with Artur Davis' vote, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't be a damned fine governor of this state, and the most progressive one we've had in a while.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 21:13:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What Montgomery Crowd would I do well to look into to? (0.00 / 0)

I don't know what Montgomery crowd you are talking about. BTW Artur Davis is a Montgomery native.

Davis was born and raised in Montgomery, Alabama, and was raised by his mother and grandmother. He graduated from Jefferson Davis High School and then magna cum laude from Harvard University in 1990 and received his J.D. cum laude from Harvard Law School before returning to Alabama. He was the recipient of the Best Oralist Award in the esteemed Ames Moot Court Competition at Harvard Law School.

I don't see how Davis can be a "damned fine Governor" of the state of Alabama when he isn't a "damn fine United States Representative" for Alabama's  the Seventh District.  But that's just me.

 

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 22:24:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

ALFA, BCA, AEA ... that's just the front end of the alphabet for you to look into (0.00 / 0)

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 01:46:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Not just in Montgomery... (0.00 / 0)

I've alread heard some of the local rednecks plannng what they can get once their guy, Sparks, is elected...

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by: Gayla @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 18:39:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The question that has a key to your answer.. (4.00 / 1)

The question to answer that is what issues are going to be in the minds of voters when they go to the polls in the primary in June and in November? Are they going to be thinking of issues that are getting play at the national level such as health care? Or is it going to be economic development in Alabama? Is it education? Is it ethics reform? Is it change in direction for the state of Alabama?

The thing to remember is that this is a statewide election and the issues that most people in Alabama decide upon will have particular relevance to the state. For example, if you look at the exit polls from the elections this past week, in both New Jersey and the NY-23 race, the candidate who focused upon local issues won.  In New Jersey, while 3/4 of Corzine's voters chose him due to national issues (health care, economy), 2/3 of Christie's focused upon a local issue.  In the NY 23 race, Hoffman had no command of local issues and lost.  I bring these up to argue that most voters in the state of Alabama will likely focus upon issues of statewide importance.

Yes, many progressives in Alabama are dissapointed today.  Sparks might have an opening to get some people to look at him (and it is time for him to bring out more comprehensive policy other than just the "bring in gambling" line).  However, there is plenty of time left in this campaign, and the candidates need to continue to address how they will move this state forwards.  It is upon that question that most voters will judge them.

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by: csduke @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 23:18:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't count on progressive democratic voters having a short memory csduke. (0.00 / 0)

Remember the words of Alan Grayson?

"You CAN NOT beat a Republican by being one"

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 23:57:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I totally disagree with mooncat. (Mark this one on your calendar) (0.00 / 0)

I do think the voters in his district will hold it against him.  If I lived in his district, I know I would hold it against his bigtime!  I would attend every rally and every campaign event he holds and ask one question : "Why did you vote against me and my family on Health Care?" And none of the statements he has issued so far are persuasive at all!

Looking at the list gradyw posted, it appears that no Dem who voted against the bill represents a district as pro-Obama as the 7th of Alabama. So, extrapolating from that- no Dem voting against the bill ignored his constituents as thoroughly as Artur Davis. 

Sparks looks a bit better today than he has before.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 09:17:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't worry (0.00 / 0)

Sparks is an opportunist.  He knows he has a straw hat, but it was anticipated by me for him to do this.  One issue is a make or break in my opinion for support for Davis.  However, others are looking for a reason...

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 17:09:05 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Redeye, it appears you're falling prey to Sparks' pandering... (4.00 / 1)

So it really doesn't matter what he may or may not have told a group of businessmen in the state.

Are you kidding me?  It absolutely DOES matter what Sparks told a room of business people!  He is running for the trust and respect of all Alabamians.  Ron Sparks CANNOT BE TRUSTED - he panders to different audiences to achieve his desired result.  In front of a room of white men in business suits, he said he opposed the public option.  In front of a group of black Birmingham NAACP members, he said he supported the public option.  THIS IS NOT LEADERSHIP.

While most of us are dissapointed in Davis' vote, at least he has been honest with us since the beginning about this bill.  He has said from the beginning that he has reservations about the employer mandates and what that would mean for workers, especially during this economic time.

Ron Sparks may have pandered to his Facebook audience on Saturday, but who's to say that this morning in a white, conservative, protestant church, he won't bash Congress for passing health care reform?

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by: BigBass @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 08:09:11 AM CST

[ Parent ]

BigBass (0.00 / 0)

It's not Ron Sparks fault Congressman Artur Davis voted agains the affordable health care act.

You are an Artur Davis defender/supporter and you say I've fallen prey to pandering?  LOL!

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 17:19:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Now, that's what I'm talking about (4.00 / 1)

Ron is siding with the angels here, and he's also making a smart campaign move.  He will be able to bludgeon Artur over the head with this vote, if Davis doesn't vote to pass the House bill - especially if it is as close as it looks like it will be.

I hope that Stupak crap gets cut out in conference, though.

"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

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by: herding old cats @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 17:34:18 PM CST

That's a good statement from Sparks (0.00 / 0)

I like to see pressure from the left, or the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

In this vote (which will happen very, very soon in the House) we are reaping the rewards of Obama's poor performance in Alabama in 2008.  The confirmed "No" votes from Democrats are virtually all from states that Obama lost by large margins -- Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Idaho, Texas, etc.  There are a handful from blue or swing states but they're invariably from tough districts.  These guys and gals are convinced that Obama not an asset for them in the next election and it's politically dangerous to support certain, lightning rod-like, parts of his agenda. Politics is that simple -- they don't believe their voters will reward them for a favorable vote.  We haven't made it safe to be a progressive Dem in those districts yet.  I think many of them are wrong -- the Republicans in their home districts are certainly not going to go easy on them just because they voted against HCR and their natural allies will be disgusted, depressed and likely to cut them loose in 2010 for opposing Obama's agenda.

Davis, of course, is looking to voters in the whole state rather than just AL-07 on this vote and on Obama's popularity. It's not pretty. I predict that if he votes "No" and the bill fails by one or two votes he'll pay a high price with Democratic voters.  If he votes "No" and it passes by one or two votes it won't be a big deal, even in the Democratic primary. Most voters are going to look at the result, not the sausage making.  

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 18:59:57 PM CST

Two thoughts to this (0.00 / 0)

1)  The question is where the moderate and independent voices in the state will come down on these issues.  This seems to be the move Davis is making (as is Griffith and Bright).

2)  The second point is that Davis's support might be more defined on whatever the final product sent to the President is.  Since there are multiple proposals floating around, Davis's opposition might just be to this one proposal but he will support the eventual product (which will be the one most remembered, especially if it is signed into law).

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by: csduke @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 19:16:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

he should not vote against this (0.00 / 0)

representing the 7th Congressional District. Anyways you look at it is wrong on so many levels and indefensible.

I think he is majorly miscalculating if hcr still passes and he voted against it.  

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by: gradyw @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 19:22:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

WTF are the moderates and the independents Davis is pandering to csduke? (0.00 / 0)

Are you saying they won't vote for Davis if he supports access to affordable healthcare for all Americans?  Are you saying the will vote for Davis is he doesn't support affordable health care for all Americans?  

Who wins in the end?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 20:12:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Exactly! (0.00 / 0)

I think all the Congressmen in Alabama have been carefully checking public opinion in Alabama and think you and I are in the minority. There's a mindset that likes the freedom to be uninsured, or at least the idea of freedom to be uninsured, and it's highly likely that at least a plurality of Alabamians think they want that freedom. And they vote.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:26:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It will be a big deal to me mooncat. (0.00 / 0)

If Artur Davis votes against the affordable health care bill he can forget my vote.  That's how big a deal it is to me.

If the people Davis is pandering to elect him governor he will represent their interest and not mine.  That's a big deal to me.

I don't know about most voters, but as for me I'm looking at how the sauage is made because that's important to me.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 20:09:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Lol, Redeye! I think Davis lost your vote a long time ago. n/t (0.00 / 0)

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 21:23:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Not really mooncat, (0.00 / 0)

Up until tonight I was really and truely undecided, but this is the straw that broke the camels back.  Davis has ripped his drawers with me.  Again.

I know who I won't be voting for.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:11:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Maybe Sparks watched 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' (0.00 / 0)

In the immortal words (singing) of Dr. Frank'n'furter:

"Don't dream it; be it."

If you want to be the Democratic nominee, why not be a Democrat?

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by: yellowdog @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 19:28:30 PM CST

Sparks lost me when he went damn squirelly on a woman's right to choose. (0.00 / 0)

How can he blend these liberal and conservative positions?  
Seems very strange to me....

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by: melmel @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:52:45 PM CST

Artur Davis voted against poor women's right to have a safe, (0.00 / 0)

legal abortion tonight.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 22:57:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I hate that vote tonight. But Davis does have a record of being much more pro-choice than Sparks. (4.00 / 1)

It SUCKS being an Alabaman sometimes!

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by: melmel @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:07:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Vote for the "1" or vote for the "0" (0.00 / 0)

Those are usually our choices.  Unwilling to cut off my nose to spite my face, I opt for the "1." If they're both zeros, I have been know to undervote, but no way will I leave the governor's race blank next November.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:13:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm a die hard progressive on a lot of issues... (4.00 / 1)

gay marriage, public heath care, public heath insurance, financial regulation, labor rights, the environment, you name it.  But I also consider myself pro-life.  Now what does that mean?  I (and, from what I can glean, Sparks) don't want to see American women return to the days of back alleys and coat hangers, but I also don't believe in public financing for elective abortions. And I support late term abortion restrictions that include exceptions for the health of the mother.  I would support I don't see that as a contradiction, but I do respect that people have deeply held beliefs on this issue.  I don't question the integrity of people who are ardently pro-choice; heck, my longtime significant other falls in that category.

I do however question the integrity of someone who pretends to stand up for the working class and then turns around and votes against a health care bill that the vast majority of his constituents support.  Abortion is an issue of conscience but if we cannot trust Democrats to stand up for progress on economic issues like health care, what is supposed to unite us as a party?

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by: bluebearcat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:07:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

bluebearcat, I do not agree with your stance (0.00 / 0)

but you make a damn fine argument.

I wonder if you have anything to back this up. I (and, from what I can glean, Sparks don't want to see American women return to the days of back alleys and coat hangers,

Cause if that is really true then I COULD change my candidate. But I have not seen any evidence of it at all.

I also don't like the idea that only women with money get choice. So if a woman is raped and is not wealthy then someone  has to take up a collection for her? Or failed birth control is something only wealthy women can deal with?

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by: melmel @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:13:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't lose hope yet (0.00 / 0)

There's an excellent chance Stupak's amendment will disappear or at least it's most odious parts will disappear in conference committee.  That's why Boehner was making such a fuss trying to get someone to guarantee they wouldn't turn around and take this language back out.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:50:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I totally agree Mooncat.. That's my hope too! (4.00 / 1)

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by: melmel @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:55:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Eliminating this stupid, and probably unconstitutional amendment (0.00 / 0)

in conference will not eliminate the historical fact that the congress-critter from the most progressive district in this state voted to deny basic human rights to the women in his district.  Damned convenient he was born without ovaries; but today I'm doubting whether he was also born without testicles.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 09:26:37 AM CST

[ Parent ]

There is a specific exception made in the Stupak amendment... (4.00 / 1)

for rape, as well as incest and life-or-death situations.  There may be other problems with the amendment but the situation you described is not one of them.  Remember, this is no different than the the restrictions currently placed on coverage by Medicare, Medicaid, sCHIP, federal employees insurance plans, and the VA.

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by: bluebearcat @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 08:12:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This has nothing to do with Sparks (4.00 / 1)

this has everything to do with the fact that Artur Davis is currently a Congressman who represents the poorest residents of this state and some of the poorest in the Country. He should have resigned if he felt that he could not stand up for the voters of his district and run for Gov. at the same time.

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by: gradyw @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:13:09 PM CST

Take a breath. (4.00 / 2)

Davis' vote makes no difference to the outcome for his constituents, just as Parker Griffith's makes no difference for me -- they were on the losing side tonight. Their constituents will get the same health care reform as Nancy Pelosi's. I have no doubt both men and Pelosi can count votes pretty damned well and I like to think that if either had been the deciding vote they would have had second thoughts about killing HCR -- they simply weren't tested to that point.  We know Davis was unwilling to vote against it in committee because he thought it should go to the floor. The Parker Griffith I used to know certainly would have been reluctant to give up this historic opportunity for reform.

You have been around long enough to know how the sausage making works -- the leadership gives a pass to those who most need it.  I have yet to see a single poll that indicates a positive vote for HCR will be a benefit in Alabama for next year's election. Now give it 6 or 8 years and I think people here will like what it turns out to be and it will boost the Democratic party tremendously, but right now we've been outshouted by the teabaggers. Politicians always have had and always will have their fingers in the wind -- it's our job to change the wind* and we haven't shifted it enough in Alabama, yet. One of the leaders of the Over the Mountain Democrats said part of their mission was to make it safe to admit being a Democrat in that area. I submit that we should all adopt that goal, while admitting we have a long ways to go in this state.

*Hat tip to Jim Wallis for reporting of MLK, Jr. and LBJ discussion in God's Politics.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 23:42:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks mooncat. I have been thinking the same thing. (4.00 / 1)

It is no COINCIDENCE that the number of dem votes were 219--just one over what was needed. She gave the dems like davis and griffith a pass on this. If she didn't have the votes she needed I don't think she would have ever allowed the vote to happen.

But I'm still sad that Alabama was on the wrong side of history and that my candidate could not bring himself to do the right thing. I understand, but I'm sad.

And God bless Jim Wallis. He is a great man.

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by: melmel @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 00:00:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

D + 18 - Did Davis Need It? (0.00 / 0)

Not for his District, but for his Statewide race. And I don't think the House Leadership cared or should care about his Statewide race. As far as they are concerned Davis is chasing windmills.

Kendrick Meek is an African American running for Senate in Fla- He voted for passage. Who's to say he shouldn't have gotten a pass?

The vote was close, much closer than many expected. I had heard reports that we might have 225 votes. We only ended up with 220

I believe that there were really some undecided votes up until the time of the vote.  Watching the votes slow down at the end, I could tell there was some posturing and deal making.

Davis's vote won't change the outcome for his constituents. You are right about that, but it would have been very symbolic. And it was the right thing to do.

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by: gradyw @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 00:01:10 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah, but... (0.00 / 0)

That is Florida, not Alabama.  Politics is Alabama a lot more socially and fiscally conservative oriented than Alabama.  

Also according to Rasmussen Reports, Meeks' likely opponent Florida Governor Charlie Crist is leading him by double digits.  So you have your argument is unanalogous because you have to know the "who, what, when, and where" about the places you compare politicos.

As much as I believe in the right thing to do, but I'm able to see what they are doing.  You have to play the political game to win.
Some have to do things that are considered wrong to win in the long run.

I'm a lot more pragmatic about politics than most on here.  No candidate is perfect, but I'm not one who lets one issue make or break my support.  

"Hypocrites are those whom pick and choose prejudices while giving accolades for their own..."

"It is what it is."  

http://blkindependent.blogspot...

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by: kayman @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 17:24:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Democratic Party in Alabama (4.00 / 1)

The goal of the 'Rahmbo' Emmanuel DNCC was to elect a majority Democratic Congress. WE got that, and now we have Progressive, Liberal, Democratic legislation.

Part 2 of the goal was to replace the Bad Democrats with Good Democrats in the election cycles but still hold the majority.

Apparently, in the State of Alabama, no one Left (which is a lot of room on the political spectrum) of Bright and Griffith believes they could win, they are unopposed in the primary, and these guys are our Democrats.

In Alabama, Progressive Liberals are considered the extreme fringe, and until we demonstrate that we are the electoral bloc that brings in elections, we will remain the fringe.

Sitting out elections and letting Republicans have their way is not going to push our agenda.
Or inspire anyone to run.

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by: yellowdog @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 08:11:47 AM CST

Several commenters have talked about Davis having a "pass" (0.00 / 0)

from Pelosi on this issue because there were enough votes to pass it without him.. I would love to believe that, bit it smells like BS to me.  Davis has been saying for days, if not weeks, that he would vote against this bill.  That was long before the votes were in place to pass it, which happened late yesterday a very short time before the actual vote. I believe Artur Davis would have watched this bill fail, to protect what he perceives as his chance at the State House.  I will believe that until someone shows me otherwise. My congress-critter is a scum bag and a rotten skunk (aplogies to actual skunks) who consistently votes the interests of the wealthy who support him and have made him very wealthy himself.  I have to accept that, but I do not have to compromise on a so-called Democratic candidate for governor who votes with the GOP on the most important issue the Obama administration has faced.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead  

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by: piggieheart @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 09:36:03 AM CST

WOW (0.00 / 0)

I feel like Davis sold us out on the Stupak amendment and the HCR vote.  Whose side is that guy on?  

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by: chap @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 20:37:28 PM CST

Davis is not on the side of progressives, (0.00 / 0)

poor men women and children, labor, LBGT's, and public schools that's for sure.

The irony of this whole situation is Davis could have picked up a lot of support from progressives, African Americans, women, and gays if he hadn't pandered to the people who might (not) vote for him.  He'd be sitting pretty today had he voted in favor of the affordable health care reform bill.  He chose not to.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 20:56:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sitting pretty (4.00 / 1)

No, he wouldn't. You're dreaming. Davis' larger problem is and always has been the general election. I'm sure you received the same message I did that calls to Parker Griffith's office were running seventy to one against health care reform Friday. That's just incredible. We have to do better to make this a place where progressives can run and WIN and win re-election. We need to organize and recruit like minded folks -- holding successful luncheons is just not enough. Until we do that, you must accept that anyone running statewide will be far to the right of you and me, or will lose in a landslide.

Work harder and work smarter!

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by: mooncat @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 21:23:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

We are not going to do better to make this a place where progressives can run (0.00 / 0)

and WIN by pandering to the RWNJ's.  We cannot organize and recruit like minded folks while supporting those that pander to the right wing at the expense of the base.  We've already lost in a landslide.  It's time to stop conceeding to the right wingers and get the winning.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)

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by: Redeye @ Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 23:18:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]