Artur Davis and Ron Sparks talked a lot about leadership at the NAACP Gubernatorial Forum Friday night. After Richard Arrington's endorsement earlier in the week, it looked like "leadership" was a new theme being rolled out by the Sparks campaign. Davis gave no ground on that issue though, pointing out that an essential part of leadership is consistency -- saying the same thing to different audiences whether it suits their tastes or not -- and citing instances where Sparks had failed to be consistent.
Ron Sparks gives the impression of a very good Commissioner of Agriculture who is having difficulty moving from that position to the broader perspective necessary for the state's chief executive -- good on details but not much on big picture. During the forum Sparks repeatedly complained that his lottery (see new lottery sign, left) and casino gambling plan have been widely criticized, both by newspapers and by the other candidates. That is not a very effective argument or one likely to inspire confidence in his leadership. Commissioner Sparks sounds more comfortable and authentic when he's speaking about accomplishments in his current job and less convincing when arguing that his gambling proposals will keep the state's fiscal head above water, and he wasn't convincing at all when asserting that we already have all the government transparency we really need.
I spoke with him before and after the forum on the lottery and government transparency -- he explained his lottery proposal will not provide a full ride to every high school graduate, but it will be "more money than we have right now." I asked if the scholarships might be $1000 per student and Sparks said they would certainly be more than that since gambling is a $1.2 billion industry in Alabama, but he did not name a specific tax rate. He also maintained that sufficient information on state Community Service Grants is already available online through the Open Alabama program. When pressed, he said it would cost too much to put the information online before the grants are approved and cited personnel cutbacks in his department.
As a Congressman, Davis actually has fewer current constituents than Sparks, but he is more successfully articulating the big picture -- his vision for the state's future, starting with a new Constitution, ethics reform, rural development and raising taxes on "big, giant companies" who currently pay a pittance in property taxes. He looks and sounds like someone who could be governor and is the first statewide candidate I recall who is connecting the dots showing how Alabama's problems have root causes (like the constitution) that can not only be addressed, but solved. He was well prepared, as always, calling Sparks out more than once for saying different things to the NAACP than he had said to another audience. Those jabs seemed to throw Sparks off message a couple of times as he responded to something Davis said rather than addressing the question.
Davis is in his element in these forums and debates -- Sparks does not do as well in a one on one engagement as he does with a standard stump speech with questions from an audience. Whichever of these men is the Democratic nominee, he will need to be quick-witted and polished against the Republican next fall. And Davis is right, if you say different things to different audiences, the GOP machine will eat you alive in the fall -- google and YouTube guarantee it. Plus it's just wrong. For years we've had to follow candidates to the parking lot to get their candid views on controversial issues. They might nod and wink and assure us they understand our position, but if they won't commit in a public forum, how much is the assurance worth? I'd rather know what the candidate really plans to do when push comes to shove, even if I don't agree with it.
This was a mostly African American audience and both men received a warm welcome. Based on the reaction of this crowd, speculation that Davis has lost popularity with his base in Birmingham is unfounded. Applause was limited to the beginning and the end of the program, but there was plenty of head-nodding going on in between as he made his points.
These two candidates engaged sharply at several points and if the format had allowed for rebuttals it would have become even more heated. There are differences, and pointed questions and challenges allow us to find those differences and understand which candidate is closest to our ideal. A highlights reel and complete question by question notes with video are below the fold.
Many thanks to the Birmingham NAACP and moderators Professor Natalie Davis and Rev. Anthony A. Johnson for an excellent and informative event.
In the notes below, if it isn't in "quotes" don't assume it is a direct quote -- it is likely just the sense of what the candidate said. The video is posted if you want the context and exact words.
Opening Statements:
Davis:
Congratulated NAACP on 100th anniversary -- so many things have changed ... "When the NAACP was born in 1909 it would have been inconceivable that Ron Sparks and I could stand on this stage -- for just about any purpose. ... The notion we could all gather in a room like this ... would have been inconceivable. Some of us would have been kept out of the room." So much has changed. ... Some things have not changed. Alabama was 8 years into a new constitution in 1909. It was written with the oldest possible value, the notion that some people counted more than others. ... The notion that local communities cannot be trusted. The hope that Montgomery would always be a check on progress. If a few of our people were educated well it did not matter if the many were poorly educated. As long as the few who were rich prospered -- landowners, powerful, corporate --that it didn't so much matter how the rest of us fared. ... If you want this state to go to a new place, If you want change that we've dreamed about, if you want a new constitution ... written for a new people, a new generation ... If you want a governor who is committed to making education a priority ... If you want a governor who understands that, yes we can come together to do great things. I want to be your candidate.
Sparks:
Whoever dreamed a little old boy from Ft. Payne Alabama ... would ever be standing here running for governor. I started out working in a sock mill. When I graduated I had no idea how I would get a college education. I served 4 years in the military. Coast Guard. Our next governor will have to make some tough choices. I know I have the leadership ability. Don't want any child who graduates from high school to wonder how they'll get a college education. When I'm governor we're going to have that college education waiting for them on the other side as long as they graduate and stay out of trouble. We're going to tax gambling. Thanks to Barack Obama for sending the stimulus package to Alabama. If not for Pres. Obama there would have been a $700 million shortfall in Medicaid.I'm going to take taxes off food. We are going to appraise your property every 4 years instead of every year. I have the vision to move us forward. Leadership ability. We have the best AG Dept. in the country.
Leadership:
Davis:
Leadership is being able to point to challenges on the horizon and yet remind us that the answers to those challenges are achievable. Saying the same thing to different people. Going in front of the BCA and saying the same thing you say to unions. Going in front of the NAACP and saying the same thing you would say in Mountain Brook or Hoover. Look for someone who can tell us we can master things together. Examples from time in Congress: Fought cuts for black land grant colleges -- got the money put back. Got the 16th St Baptist Church, nationally recognized, the victims of that hurt nationally recognized. Doors had been closed to black farmers but the doors have now been opened so they can have their day in court. You've seen me say to blacks, whites, every combination of human beings that we can work together and last contested election won 90% of virtually every box, no matter what the racial makeup of that box..
Sparks:
You've elected me 2 times. I took a department of agriculture that was basically dormant and made it one of the best in the nation. Today in Alabama your food is safe because I had the courage to go to the docks and tell them you don't produce your food to the same standards, it doesn't come to Alabama. Today your children are eating healthier in schools because of my program. I've had the courage and leadership to travel the world. I took the first official delegation to Cuba when I was criticized and said we shouldn't go. Trade delegation to Africa. Opened a trade office in India. I can reach across party lines. I have the ability to make Alabama what we want it to be. I have the vision to know that only 7% of children get pre K. Only 17% to go to college. I want to change that. I want every one of you children and your grandchildren to be able to get a college education in Alabama. Every one of them will get that education if you'll elect me governor of the state of Alabama.
Budget shortfall:
Sparks:
"I've been criticized by everyone running about the plan I've laid on the table. ... Alabama is broke. Our education system is broke." Medicaid is broke. I'm not going to tax you, but I'm going to tax gambling. I want to control them, I want a gambling commission and I want to tax them. Buses are going to Mississippi every day. It's not a silver bullet but it's better than what we're doing today. Unfortunately, the cost of education is not same today as in 1999. I'm tired of sending money to Georgia, to Florida. I want to keep Alabama money in Alabama.
Davis:
Where we agree: We would both tax and regulate gambilng. Where we differ: "I'm going to tax them right now because they deserve to pay their fair share. I'm not going to say to the gambling industry 'We're going to grow you so big you won't feel tax bite.' I want to tax them and regulate them right now. I want local communities to make choices that are good for their own people. Ron, one of the moments I was a little unhappy with you was when you did your rollout on casino gambling. You came to Druid Hills and Fountain Heights and said 'I want to put a casino here.' I didn't see you on 280. I didn't see you next to the Galleria. There's a lot of open land out there by the Galleria but I didn't see you say 'I want to put a casino there.' I saw you go to to the Edmund Pettus bridge and said 'I see a casino here.' I didn't see you go to Decatur or to Montevallo. "Some of us get a little bit worried that the theory seems to be that some communitiess should get some kinds of jobs and other communities get other kinds of jobs. That's a big difference between us in this governor's race."
Unemployment:
Davis:
In Wilcox county 1 out of 4 people who are eligible to work ... do not have work. The first few years I was in Congress Gov. Riley and I used to spend time talking about progress we were making in the Black Belt. Unemployment was down in those counties. Last few years ... we have faced the worst recession since the Great Depression ... and it has just ripped a hole in the side of our ship of state. What I will do as governor, ladies and gentlemen, I will make rural economic development one of my major priorities. Incentivize companies that will come to low income, distressed communities. What's more important than any of this? Education Have to educate our young people so thay can do the jobs when those jobs come to the communities.
Sparks:
I went to the Edmund Pettus bridge because I want to give those folks in the Black Belt quality jobs. You know that's how you change people's lives by giving them quality jobs. It doesn't matter to me personally whether you put them on the East side of town or the West side. Not one time did I dictate where I would put a casino. I want to help the Black Belt. I want to help Alabama. I'm tired of sending our money to MIssissippi. I've traveled the world meeting with Presidents and Secretaries of Agriculture. Biofuel. I created a department of alternative fuels at the Dept. of Agriculture. That's how we rebuild Alabama, it's by giving people jobs.
Health care & the public option:
Sparks:
"Unfortunately, I'm not in Congress and I don't have an opportunity to vote on that issue but I wish I was. If I were I would fight for the public option. I would make sure that everybody in Alabama has affordable health care" .. I would not settle for any plan that left 25 million people without health care ... "You know, we have a president who sent our troops to war looking for weapons of mass destruction that wasn't there but he couldn't see a hurricane in New Orleans that was there. Folks let's get it real. I would fight for the public option, I would fight for health care, and I wish that I had a vote in Congress."
[Note, I believe Ron Sparks said he would fight FOR the public option. Someone else viewing the video could not hear the FOR in that sentence and thought he said he would fight the public option. In the room, it certainly seemed that he said he would fight FOR it.]
Davis:
The first question was about leadership. "I made point that leadership is about saying same thing to different audiences even from political perspectives may differ from people in the room. The first candidates forum was down on the beach in Point Clear, back on Aug. 1st. All the republicans were there, Commissioner Sparks was there. And a whole lot of very conservative businessmen were there. We were asked the question "What do you think about the health care bill moving through the house that includes a public option." Ron do you remember what you're answer was? Your answer was, 'I'm against it.' You didn't say to the BCA I'm going to fight for the public option, you said I'm against it and you ticked off all the reasons the folks in that room wanted to hear. Now let me tell you what I think, I'm where President Obama is. I think a public option would be one way to get us to universal access, but as the President said in a brilliant speech he made to Congress several months ago, it is not the only way and we've got to find a way to get this right. I look forward to the House and Senate resolving their differences. I look forward toward them coming up with a bill that does the following:
That says to every low income American, we're going to give you a subsidy to help you get insurance. That expands Medicaid so we cover the gap that exists in it that goes to small businesses and says we're going to give you the help you need to provide insurance to people. I am for those things. I don't change that based on what audiences I'm talking to. And that's what leadership is about ladies and gentlemen. If you're gove you're going to be in a room with the BCA and they're going to be looking at you saying 'tell us' and you've got to decide do you stand for something or do you simply tuck and trim your sails for the wind. Don't go in front different audiences and say different things. If your for the public option in front of the NAACP, don't get in front of the Business Council and say you're against it."
[This was one of the most heated exchanges of the evening. Here's an audio clip from the BCA forum mentioned by Artur Davis so you can listen for yourself. You hear the question first, then Roy Moore's response, then Ron Sparks saying:
"You know we have 48 million Americans without health care in this country today. Do we need reform in health care? Absolutely. But do I support the current legislation that we have on the table? No I don't. And I commend Congress by slowing this down and not moving swiftly, but we have definitely got to get our hands around health care reform in this country. You can rest assured. You know, I'm going to do the same thing for businesses as I've done for farmers. I've continued to fight for farmers for the last seven years to see that the federal government don't put them out of business. That's exactly what I'm going to do for the business community, I'm going to fight to make sure the government don't put them out of business. But we need health care reform in this country."
Crises, such as hurricane Katrina:
Davis:
One of us is going to be the next governor. One of us is going to ... have to deal with a hurricane barreling toward Mobile. The time is going to come when someone says that ... Swine flu is closing schools. "I'm going to pray for guidance at that moment. I'm going to ask God to let me see with clarity a sound way to deal with unexpected problems." It's important to have a moral compass, have a moral sense of what's right and what's wrong. Don't vary that sense of what's right and what's wrong based on who you're talking to. If you have that kind of a moral compass that doesn't change based on who's in the room, that doesn't change based who you're speaking to, not only will you navigate the big things like crises, you'll give the people of this state the day in day out governor that we need. ... If you are faithful in these few things ... just a few faithful values, you can do a whole lot.
Sparks: Congressman, do you remember the quote that you made on the East side of this state 'It's hard to be a Democrat today?' Do you remember the quote 'It's hard to support Pres. Obama's plan?' Let's talk about leadership. I've lived under Katrina. I've been an elected official during Katrina. I was in the Congressman's district before he was. ... I've stood up for disaster packages when members of my own delegation voted against them. I know how tough it is for people who live through those natural disasters. I've showed leadership time and time again through those disasters in Alabama.
Referenced the Hyundai recruitment. In the beginning, you couldn't get an application in Alabama. He stood with unions and said if we're going to invest $150 million Alabama people ought to be building Hyundai and working at Hyundai. You've got to create jobs. You've got to travel the world and promote what Alabama has. Can't always look for a home run but can help those industries in Alabama. I've laid it on the table. We're broke. I come out and talk about gambling and I was criticized. We are going to tax gambling in Alabama, we are going to lay the lottery back on the table and we are going to educate our children. We will never be able to bring the jobs to Alabama if we don't ecucate our children because they don't compete against Georgia and Tennessee anymore.
Davis:
How you create economic wealth in a state like ours ... educate as many young people as you can. We have a drop out rate that is too high. I laid out a comprehensive proposal in early August ... that will be largest initiative ever undertaken to reduce the drop out rate. I'm going to be talking a lot about education in this campaign. We're leaving federal dollars on table because we're one of the few states that don't have charter schools. "Barack Obama -- whom I was very happy to support for president when you were supporting a different candidate, Ron -- Barack Obama supports charter schools and says they're a good thing. I'm with him." If Alabama would just pass a bill setting up charter schools, do y'all know we could get $150 million federal dollars that we could use in our schools. 19.8% of our residents have a college degree now. If the next governor could lead the path toward moving that number to 27 or 28 in the next decade, nothing would have more consequential impact on our state. Move it to close to 30, and it would change the whole face of this state. It would change the profile of this state.
Qualifications to be governor:
Davis:
"Why do I think I would be a good governor? Very, very simple. I know how to lead people. I know how to bring people together who are on different sides of the argument. Goodness knows I've had to do it in Congress." When George Bush wanted to shut down the Hope 6 program, I put together a coalition to get 60 Republicans across the aisle to save Hope 6. When we reopened black farmer's lawsuit people in my own party said Davis you can't do this." This is above our level -- I pushed and prodded and we got a farm bill that reopened the black farmers lawsuit. When they wanted to reduce funding for black land grant universities. shamed Republicans into making it right by telling them how dare you treat one set of schools different from another. "Freshman notwithstanding you've got to have nerve and guts sometimes." I am the one candidate running who can bring people together Bob Riley got 25% of Democratic vote in 2006 and he got a big chunk of those votes in Jefferson County. I am the strongest cand in Jefferson county. I can bring people together.
Sparks:
You need to let people decide who strongest candidate is. I won 62 counties out of 67 in 2006. I've won 2 statewide elctions. Jefferson County has been good to me Etowah County has been good to me. Cullman County has been good to me. As my budgets have been cut at the Dept. of Agriculture I've continued to make sure food is safe. Made sure every gallon of gas you pay for, you get. Alabama is an agricultural state. I have showed leadership time after time again. I've reached across party lines. When I've had the opportunity to appoint more registrars --66 registrars appointed -- 27 black. 4 deputy commissioners, 2 black. I've showed leadership in diversity in my office. I'm the best qualified to be governor because I've been working all across Alabama.
Funding for education:
Sparks:
You can go to newspaper after newspaper and look at the plan I've laid on the table and you can look at the criticism of me because of the plan. Not one candidate has laid a proposal on the table that will generate one dime. They say they're going to give you a $500 tax credit. How much is that going to help you? They say they're going to cut the budget another $500 million. ... I don't want state employees to put up with the next 4 years what they've put up with over the last 4 years. I'm not going to stand up on stage and praise Bob Riley for the job he's done. Reduce the drop out rate, save on crime related costs. Got to educate our children. "I've laid a proposal on the table that will generate money and I have been criticised by everyone running for governor."
Davis:
Ron, I'm tempted not to do it but, consistency. You told the Mobile Press Register you thought Bob Riley was doing a great job but you've issued a different opinion here tonight with this audience. Ron, you actually have put some good ideas on the table. "I agree with you that we need to regulate and tax gambling. Here's the place we differ. I want to tax them at the national average -- you won't say. You've been talking about gambling pretty much nonstop, 24/7 since the 4th of July but you won't get around to answering the question what's the tax rate going to be. How do you know how much money you're going to bring in?" A lottery is not a bad idea. Legislature wants to approve a lottery I'm all for it. You want to approve a lottery, I'm all for it. You know how much money it would yield ladies and gentlemen? About $220 million a year. I'm going to put that $220 million to good use. I trust Ron would also. "I'm going to go to big giant companies, not you, not family farms, not families - big giant companies who are harvesting timber in this state and I'm not going to say, 'You're not going to get the deal you've been getting from the state of Alabama.' We are going to tax you the same as Georgia and Mississippi and other places tax you. Here's the reality. We've got timber here folks, thyey've got to come here. We've got the timber and they want to harvest it they've got to come here." Property tax rate is 1/4 in Georgia what it is here. That's unfair. But you know where it comes from, ladies and gentlemen? The 1901 constitution. That 1901 constitution leaves more privileges and more breaks for special interests -- and here's what's immoral about it.. a mother in Birmingham and Fairfax and Ensley has to pay tax on baby formula but a big giant company harvesting timber pays almost nothing. That's rooted in the constitution, that's one of the main reasons I want to change it -- Ron you support the constitution and join the Republicans in being an opponent of constitutional reform.
Charter schools:
Davis:
I will support charter schools. Everyone doesn't agree wtih President Obama on this question. There are some people who say ... well, why should we do something special for some schools and why can't we do the same thing for all schools. Here's what the President of the United States is saying: Charters schools give us an opoortunity for a little extra creativity. I'd love to see one in Ensley. I'd love to see a charter school in Fairfield. I'd love to see a charter school in Selma. Not a casino but a charter school. You know what we're passing up? By being bullheaded about this? $150 million dollars. Voters in Alabama, they know education is not working the way it is supposed to. And our teachers are dong a wonderful job. We need to do some things we haven't done. Your children deserve the best possible opportunity to get a first class education here in Alabama.
Sparks:
"I hope we've got a lot of recorders running because here's an opportunity where we disagree very strongly. Hopefully there's not an opportunity to flip flopping in the furute. I would not take one dime of money out of public education system in Alabama to create a charter school in Alabama. If you want to start segretating our schools, start taking money out of the rural sections of our state" ... I want every child in Alabama to have the same quality of education whether you live in Wilcox county or whether you live in Mountain Brook. I would not take one dime of the people 's money, the taxpayers' money in Alabama and take away from the public education system in Alabama .... if there's money in Washington for charter schools, why isn't there money to help the schools that we have today? ... I will not take a dime out of our money out of the education pot until we raise the pre-K rate in Alabama.
Ethics, accountability and transparency:
Sparks:
My opponent and all the Republican candidates have been talking about ethics, they've been talking about reform, transparency. There's nobody running for governor that don't want to see transparency. Just the other day my opponent sided with Treasurer Kay Ivey. Congressman, I don't know if you even know the process of the community block grant program. But I do, and the process is that I want to make sure every dime gets into our schools. I believe in after school programs, I believer in tutoring programs ... fire departments, putting red lights up at schools ... Gov. Bob Riley has put every dime on the computer. Why would I want to go hire somebody to start putting thousands of contracts on the computer that's already there? But my opponent seems to think that Republican Kay Ivey is right and I'm wrong when I'm fighting for the people of Alabama.
Davis:
Facts are very stubborn things. Ron this is what you and I had a little disagreement about. I'm all for community block grants ... "I just want that stuff to be posted on the internet so that everybody in this audience has a 30 day comment period to call in and give their judgements on how some money is spent. It's not your money, it's the taxpayers' money. And I just want to give them a chance to have a little bit of transparency." Commissioner Sparks says everybody's for ethics, they don't act like it in this campaign. I have put on the table the strongest set of ethics proposals ever -- and by the way, you've called Bob Riley's name so much, they're three times as strong as anything he's ever put on the table. He want's to ban gifts by lobbyists over $250, I want to ban them completely. Campaign financing. At the federal level there are caps put in place. You shouldn't be able to write checks for $250,000 or $500,000 checks. And we need a lot more transparency, by the way, in how we account for campaign money. I'm for that. You may say a little bit dismissively -- ethics, accountability, that's saying to the people in this room, it's your money, you deserve a chance to lok in that window and see how it's being spent. In Montgomery, a few narrow forces sit around a table ... "there's no sunshine in that room, there's no tape recorder in that room, and we don't know what they do when they're inside it but they make decisions that order the futures of every one of us in this audience. Transparency and acountability are things we should celebrate, not be dismissive of."
[No video of the last question and the closing statements.]
This question had to do with "government of the people, by the people and for the people" and related to how you would govern:
Davis (partial):
There's a reason we're ahead ... it's because we're making the case about where we want this state to go. We're making the case about the new constitution, we're making the case about ethics reform, we're making the case about education. I trust you to make the decision. Lincoln always said, let's appeal to our better angels, and as governor, I intend to.
Sparks:
You talk about double talk ...Would anybody in this room who's been to Martha's vineyard lately, raise your hands. Would anybody in this room who's been to a penthouse in New York raise your hands. Can you imagine the high qualilty of the checks taken out of NY vs. the checks I get in Lamar county, ... DeKalb County? And talk about diversity. (Here he introduced one of his deputy commissioners, Theresa, who is a black woman.) Never before has there been a black woman .. at one of the highest levels in the Dept. of Agriculture. Mentioned his 27 minority registrar appointments. I have continually stood up for Alabama, I have continued to do what's right for Alabama. I will continue to do right for Alabama when you elect me governor.
Closing statements:
Sparks:
Thank you. Vision is the ability to look into the future and make decisions to make Alabama great. You gotta remember the lady that had more vision than anybody was blind and that was Helen Keller George Washington Carver once said 'A man with no vision is a man with no hope.' And ladies and gentlemen I have that vision. That's why I laid the lottery program back on the table to educate our children. I have that vision because I have the courage to tax gambling in the state of Alabama. I have that vision because I have a road program that nobody has laid on the table because people are getting killed. 30% of our bridges are over 50 years old. Unacceptable to me to see over 7% of our children get pre-K. Regardless of neigborhood, color, how much money ... I want to help every child in Alabama stay in school, graduate. There is hope. There is hope for you and your children and your grandchildren because we are going to pass the lottery and we are going to give those children an education. That's leadership. There are tough times ahead of us and I can handle those tough times and I can win in November.
Davis:
I did have one of those fancy out of state fundraisers. The man lives in Washington, DC. African-American, who was born in Akron,Alabama in Hale cty. He left Alabama a long time ago ... Called me a few months ago said I read in newspaper that you were trying to do something in my state that I know will change my state forever. And I've got a big nice house in DC he said, my wife's doing well. My wife doesn't think so well of Alabama right now. I want to show my wife what Alabama's really about. And I want to show about 15 of my friends -- yeah we did have a nice little crowd that night. There are people all over who are waiting and they have thier misconceptions about Alabama, they have doubts about Alabama. You know what, some of us act like we do too. I will tell you why I'm running for governor - I believe in this state and I love this state with a passion I cannot describe. I see the goodness of its people the week after Katrina over at the BJCC when some of you helped shelter people from the storm after Katrina. ... I believe in this state. If you believe in this state, as well, if you believe we can make it to a ground we didn't think we could do, if you think we can transform our schools and make them the best they can possibly be, if you think we can open up our college doors, if you think we can close the gap between urban and rural, if you think we can close the gap between the Black Belt and the suburbs, if you think we can be one community -- I need you in this campaign. Pray for both of us along the way ... I want to be the governor who will change Alabama for good. God bless you.
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