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Ron Sparks/Artur Davis Gubernatorial Forum in Birmingham

by: mooncat

Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:16:27 AM CDT


The Over the Mountain Democrats deserve a word of thanks for hosting such a quality event. The format was very good with sufficient time for the candidates to give substantive responses and rebuttals and moderator Barry Ragsdale did an excellent job with the questions. We'll have some video up later.

In the meantime, I agree with Kathy's assessment below -- Davis was the clear victor.

As a progressive Democrat I am extremely tired of hearing Ron Sparks say "if there's a problem with the Constitution, let's change it amendment by amendment." Anyone who has studied Alabama government at all realizes there are several problems with the 1901 Constitution. We are so past the "IF there's a problem" stage on Constitution Reform.

I'm also tired of hearing Commissioner Sparks say a "Constitutional Convention means we'll raise your taxes." That's a standard Republican talking point and one I don't enjoy hearing at a Democratic candidate forum. In contrast, Congressman Davis said as governor he would call for the election of delegates to a Constitutional Convention on the primary ballot in 2012 and wants to see a new constitution on the ballot in the 2014 election. In reply to Sparks' "If there's a problem with the Constitution, let's change it amendment by amendment," Davis said "That's what we've done." Which is quite true, and as a result we've been stuck with the 1901 albatross for over 100 years. It's time to try a different way.

There was a fairly sharp interchange over gambling -- Sparks proposed building a casino on the banks of the Alabama River in Selma. Davis said he was not going to build an economic strategy for the next decade around gaming and the uncertain possibility of a lottery passing. I would like to do some digging on this, but it seems to me most jobs at and around casinos are relatively low paying service jobs, not good middle class jobs. Professional or manufacturing jobs would almost certainly provide more long term benefit to the local economy, if they can be attracted to Alabama.

The sharpest exchanges of the evening came on the subject of ethics reform and electability. Sparks essentially accused Davis of violating Alabama's Fair Campaign Practices Act by "raising money before June 6th" and implied his ethics reform proposal would "turn over our judicial system to prosecutors." To say the accusation fell flat would be charitable. I believe one person applauded. Sparks is making a huge mistake hanging his campaign on these technicalities -- average people don't give a rat's eyelash about the nuances of the AFCPA and he's wasting valuable time arguing about petty issues instead of defining himself.

Interestingly, Davis indicated his polling shows both Democrats are electable and both are currently beating Republicans "Moore, James, Byrne and Ivey." For his part, Sparks stressed his own electability -- he's twice been elected statewide -- then said he didn't "design the way Alabama is" but we need to look at who can win. Like Kathy, I heard the dogwhistle and it fell flat with this crowd.

Fortunately for Sparks, that was the last question of this forum so he could not dig himself any deeper into that hole.  

mooncat :: Ron Sparks/Artur Davis Gubernatorial Forum in Birmingham
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sounds like Sparks bombed (4.00 / 3)
"If there's a problem with the Constitution" - that's a no-brainer

I'm not crazy about some of Davis's votes from an ideological perspective as the Representative of AL-07 although I think that he has represented with honor.

I don't think Sparks is resignating with the people at all. Especially in the places where he would need the votes to beat Davis.

Sparks is bumbling and fumbling all over the place.

Yes I think Artur can win and I learned at in Pittsburgh that national experts like Charlie Cook do not put it out of the realm of possibility.  


I heard you asked a good question on the validity of polls in Pittsburgh (4.00 / 1)
Did you blog about that, at all? Sparks basically said you can get any answer you want out of a poll and that he hadn't done any polls on whether a black candidate or a white candidate can win.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
i haven't blogged on it (4.00 / 1)
but the panelists did say that you can't just dismiss internal polls. that's the short answer.

i'll get more into it later. if there is a video of that panel i want to watch it again. it was that good


[ Parent ]
I have video of the District 7 candidates (4.00 / 2)
Shelia Smoot, Earl Hilliard, Jr., and Martha Bozeman spoke before the forum started.

But, unlike Mooncat (who was up for HOURS last night cutting video, uploading, etc. like a good blogger), I need sleep.  She was still up blogging hours after I was dead to the world.

I'll have them up in the next few days though.


"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




My impressions of last night (4.00 / 2)
Over the past 6 months, Mooncat and I have interviewed both, attended their kickoffs, gone to rallies and similar forums.  I've spent more time with Sparks & Davis than I have with my mother - who, by the way, doesn't mind reminding me of that.

I think both men started out strong.  Again, Sparks seems to have gotten some of his old self back.  His speaking style is more forceful, with some of the populist fire back in it.  But there's a fine line between good populist anger and just sounding angry.  Towards the end, Sparks crossed over and stayed with just angry.

At least, that's how it seemed to me.

As the evening wore on, Davis put him on the defensive by subtly (and not so subtly) calling him out.  First on whether gambling is the sort of industry we need to pin Alabama's economic hopes on and then later on ethics reform.

The ethics reform question drew the sharpest exchange. I know Mooncat will be putting that video clip up soon, so I won't try to describe it in detail.

But what stuck out for me was Davis' admonition that we Democrats shouldn't be attacking each other and handing the GOP campaign talking points.  He reiterated that either Democratic candidate is better than any of the Republicans running by a long shot.

I like both candidates and will be lined up to volunteer for either in the general because yes, EITHER ONE is better than the current Republican offerings.  But I do think that Sparks needs to work on not losing his temper - or appearing to.  

That leads a person (and candidate) to say things they don't really mean in the heat of the moment.  

The rabbis of the Talmud said that when a person loses his temper, his soul temporarily departs from his body and allows the Evil One to take over.  For candidates, it's not the "Evil One" who gets in but "Stupid Politician" who takes over and makes gaffes that might doom a campaign with a single sentence.

People want a candidate to be passionate on the issues and his/her campaign.  Again though, there's a fine line between forceful and just plain angry and self-pitying.  

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




I like that (4.00 / 2)
The rabbis of the Talmud said that when a person loses his temper, his soul temporarily departs from his body and allows the Evil One to take over.

If I recall correctly, Sun Tzu gave a similar warning about losing your cool.

Wisdom of the ancients, Ron - keep your head about you.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
- John Adams


[ Parent ]
Sparks needs to drop the electability argument. (4.00 / 3)
It's not going to be effective and I don't really think it's true.  He needs to hammer Artur Davis on his education policies because they suck hard.  They are considerably to the right of what Bob Riley proposed when he ran for governor.

That said, I like most of the rest of Artur's policies on things like Constitutional Reform.  I just don't think he'll ever have the political capital to get it done.  Republicans in the legislature are adamantly against it and honestly so are most Democrats.  If he would stop blaming Alabama's teachers for all the state's problems in education, he might get somewhere.


They both need to hammer each other (4.00 / 1)
When you hammer metal, it's called forging, and that is how you strengthen and shape a blade.

I'm going to keep on saying that it's a long time till June, and either gentleman could be our candidate.  They both need to be as strong and as sharp as they can be.

If Sparks can drive Davis back toward the angels, so much the better.  If Davis can urge Sparks to listen to his better, progressive angels, we all win.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
- John Adams


[ Parent ]
Congress Davis comes across as S M A R T and (4.00 / 2)
intelligent.  That in  itself, is a change needed in Alabama.

LOL @Gayla! (4.00 / 1)
You've got a point there, but to para quote Ron Sparks, This is Alabama and S M A R T and intelligent Black men are considered U P P I T Y in Alabama.  Trust me I know...

I reluctantly agree with Davis on this point, any Democrat is better than the currant gop group of goobernator wanna be's.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
You laughing at me, Redeye:)? (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Correction Gayla, (4.00 / 1)
I'm laughing WITH you. :)  We must laugh to keep from crying.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Yeah, I know.. (4.00 / 1)
that was my DiNero impersonation....

[ Parent ]
And let me add to this... (4.00 / 3)
I'm not sure what the wingnuts are most threatened by - smart, intelligent, or black.  And unfortunately, at least in my neck of the woods in Marshall County, it's not just the wingnuts.  I recently resigned from our local Democratic Club and as Secretary of our Democratic Executive Committee.  Some of the Democratic elected officials, and believe me, you'd know some of the names/persons, became infuriated at the idea of Artur Davis coming to one of our meetings.  Comments like "you might as well put a shotgun to our heads", "Marshall County is racist", "that's why people come here" (because of a relatively small minority population).  Now, me, being a Democrat who believes in the Democratic Party platform, believes Democrats, especially our elected, so-called leaders, have an obligation and a duty to stand up, speak against, and lead away from ignorance and racism.  If they silently tolerate it, aren't they condoning it?  Anyways, guess I needed to get that out of my system.  I've been holding on to it for a while.  I'm to the point where I can't/won't support any of these cowards.

[ Parent ]
Marshall county is racist? (4.00 / 1)
Who knew? :)

Bravo for your principled position and for standing up for what is right (no pun).

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
In my opinion (0.00 / 0)
The wingnuts are above all threatened by any questioning - or worse still, contrary evidence - of their worldview.  Or of the worldview they hear on the radio or at church.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
- John Adams


[ Parent ]
OMG Gayla! (4.00 / 1)
How awful for you. I had heard some anecdotes, but to hear that kind of talk coming from the committee, and to think that you felt your only recourse was to resign from the Democratic organizations, well, it's just appalling. Are their others who feel the way you do?  Maybe y'all can form a DFA or OFA group down there to support each other.

Please feel free to express your honest opinions and feelings here, and vent, any time.

Work harder and work smarter!


[ Parent ]
Yes, there are others. (4.00 / 2)
I think several of you know Susan McKenney, who was the ExCom Chair, 4th District Secretary, and Secretary to the Club.  At one of the regularly scheduled ExCom meetings, the subject of Artur's impact on the down ticket was raised, as we had received an inquiry from the campaign about his coming to Marshall County.  I made the suggestion that maybe we need to get him up here, so people can get to know him, know where he stands, etc.  One of our Democratic circuit court judges basically shouted me down with a "DUH!!! You might as well put a shotgun to our heads".  This was my first outing after a 3 hernia repair surgery, and I, frankly wasn't up to fighting.  I scribbled out my resignation, handed it to Susan, and then told this judge I had resigned because I would not work for, campaign for or support any candidate who was only in it for his own agenda (his own pension and power, IMHO) and did not uphold the Democratic Party principles...That was, I believe in June.  Susan resigned in July, and as of yet, no meetings have been held.  ExCom members are forbidden by their and the State by-laws from endorsing any candidate during the primary; all we were were asking was that all candidates be treated equally and given the same consideration.  And this wasn't the first time suh had happened.  At our May meeting, we were strongly told by the same judge and a state rep that we needed to distance ourselves from Obama, the national party, and focus on them (the officials) being good people - who just happen to be Democrats.  It's been nasty, it's been disappointing, and it's been disillusioning as I've supported and worked on all of these campaigns to some degree.  Yeah, I'm not so naive that I don't believe racism exists here; but I do believe Democratic candidates and leaders have a duty to combat it, not silently tolerate and condone it.  While I can't vote for a republican, I'll be damned it I vote for a Democrat who doesn't stand up for what's right.

[ Parent ]
My mother's county committee had much the same mindset last fall (4.00 / 1)
At our May meeting, we were strongly told by the same judge and a state rep that we needed to distance ourselves from Obama, the national party, and focus on them (the officials) being good people - who just happen to be Democrats.

Unfortunately (for them, anyway), they screwed up and let Mommycat run the HQ.  And 90%+ of the people coming in the door wanted Obama signs and stickers.  But the committee wouldn't buy any (maybe the $$ really weren't there, I don't know).  So a couple of people did private fundraising calls, got enough money to buy a hundred or so signs, sold those (didn't GIVE them away), made more money to buy more Obama stuff, sold that, etc. etc..  rinse, repeat....

All the enthusiasm for the Democratic ticket came from Obama/Biden, but some of the entrenched officeholders and party stalwarts (though certainly not all of them), were dead set against acknowledging that there was a Democrat running for president.

It was all the "let's focus on our local folks" stuff.  I hesitate - not having been there in person even once - to write it all off to racism, but I think that Obama at the top of the ticket certainly paid a part in their reluctance to promote the whole Democratic ticket.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




[ Parent ]
He comes across with political smarts as well... (4.00 / 3)
Compared to Sparks, Davis comes across as a savvier politician.  For example, in this event and the DFA training, Davis knew his audience.  He knew that the overwhelming majority of the crowd are engaged Democrats and will be supporting the winner of the primary next November.  Hence, he offers his "Either Ron or I are better than any Republican" statement.  In a room full of Democrats, this is a smart line to use--you want to highlight policy differences but you do not want to bloody the nominee to the point that they can't win a general.  Davis also frames a change message in his rhetoric.  Note his response to Sparks' "didn't design the way Alabama is":  Artur is calling for a change in direction for the state, including some changes that many of us who read this blog have been hoping for in this state (issues such as constitutional reform, tax reform, ethics, education).  So far, Sparks has not played these issues well--the attacks on Davis on the fundraising last night fell flat (as did those last week on the special session), and his use of the "Alabama is what it is" does not work in a room filled with Democrats, especially a room of OTM Dems.

[ Parent ]
Those OTM Dems are a well dressed bunch (4.00 / 1)
The crowd was definitely dressed for dinner. I was thankful I didn't attend in the LiA t-shirt and jeans I was wearing earlier in the day.

The event was very well done though, informative and smooth running. They could give lessons to organizations around the state.

Work harder and work smarter!


[ Parent ]
OTM Dems (4.00 / 1)
I was in the Birmingham area yesterday listening to the radio and a candidate for Congress (?)ad accuses former Mayoral candidate Patrick Cooper and the OTM Dems of "meddling" in Birmingham City Council bizness or something to that effect.  

Insight anyone?

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
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