Left In Alabama

On The Costs Of Care, Or, You Don't Want Every Item On This Menu

by: fake consultant

Sat Jun 13, 2009 at 05:27:54 AM CDT


( - promoted by mooncat)

I don’t know if you’ve been thinking about it, but the costs of long-term care have been on the mind of some friends of mine lately.

For reasons that we won’t go into here, they are in the process of pricing long-term care at care facilities…and yesterday afternoon, we had a chance to have a look at the “menu” of services (the facility's term) that can be purchased at this particular location.

If you are facing this issue in your own family, if you are a taxpayer thinking about how we plan to fund long-term care in the future…or if, one day, you expect to be old yourself…this conversation will surely matter.
fake consultant :: On The Costs Of Care, Or, You Don't Want Every Item On This Menu
To protect the innocent, I won’t be mentioning names today, but here’s what you need to know:

The location in question is an “assisted living facility” located near Seattle, it is somewhat upscale, but by no means ”posh”, and it is a residence of substantial size, with dozens of clients living there. It is not a “mom and pop” business run out of a house, but instead a more corporate operation.

The first thing you are charged for is the “apartment” in which you reside and some basic services to go with it. Those services include “finishing the place” with blinds and appliances, weekly housekeeping and linen, and the power and the water and the cable (“Basic Extended”). 

You’re also paying for the 24-hour staff presence, “recreation” services, and scheduled transportation.

Also included: two meals daily, but not breakfast.

Telephone charges are not included.

The cost, for a single person: $1900 per month for a studio, $2300 for a one bedroom, and $2800 for a two-bedroom. There are nicer “views” available, which add about $400 to each price. Adding a second person costs $600 extra every month.

You will note that this price does not include medical and “personal” services…and for that, we will turn to the actual “menu”.

"Old wood to burn! Old wine to drink! Old friends to trust! Old authors to read!"

--Francis Bacon, Apothegms. No. 97.


Start with the basics: a daily wake-up call is $50/month; having a load of personal laundry washed every week or having a staff member make the bed daily adds $70 monthly. Housekeeping is $30/hour…so hopefully the resident can clean their own apartment.

Breakfast is $95 each month.

To determine what additional needs you might have, a nursing assessment is conducted at the time of admission.

If it’s determined that the resident needs bathing assistance, costs work like this:

If the resident can wash themselves, but need to be watched during the shower, that service, once a week, is $165 monthly. If the resident needs a staff member to help them shower, add $60 (If two staff members are required, that’s an extra $140 monthly).

Can the resident dress themselves? 

A daily reminder to change clothes costs $100/month. If a staff member needs to spend under 10 minutes a day to help the resident dress, that’s $175/month, if 15 – 20 minutes of assistance is required, that’s $250 monthly.

Can the resident take care of their own personal grooming? If they can’t, that adds $150 to the monthly charges.

There are also “toileting programs”. 

Having the staff remind you to go to the bathroom costs $200/month (this also covers the occasional incontinence event), and having a staff member monitor you in the bathroom raises the rate to $275 (this also covers the occasional “bowel accident”).

A “structured toileting program” runs $350…and if you need to be checked for bowel accidents regularly, or need someone to wipe for you, or have regular accidents requiring changes of clothing, that’s $425 a month added to the bill.

Some people have had surgical procedures that require them to use a bag attached to their colon for waste removal. The site where the bag is attached is called a “stoma site”, and the service associated with stoma care is at least $250 monthly at this facility. Supplies (such as colostomy bags) are not included in this price.

Can the resident walk to meals on his or her own?

If yes, but they need a verbal reminder to go to meals, that’s $175/month. If the resident requires assistance to get to the dining room, that’s $225 monthly…and if it takes longer than 5 minutes on average to assist the resident, that adds $275 to the bill each month.

Special diets, prescribed by a physician, add $500 to the monthly bill.

Can the resident take their own medications?

If not, the minimum charge is $230 monthly, which covers up to 5 medications daily, “served” two times a day.

If the client takes more than five meds daily (or takes meds more than twice daily) that cost could potentially increase by another $165/ month.

Oxygen service: add another $150 monthly.

While all that seems expensive…we haven’t come to the big-ticket item yet.

There will be residents who will require “memory support”.

The simplest form of this service provides “redirecting, reassurance, orientation to surroundings, responding to questions/concerns that arise from diminished short term memory” and several checks daily to ensure the resident is on the property. Those who receive this level of service are also physically escorted to meals. The service costs $300 per month.

For $400 the resident is walked back from meals, and a staff member provides verbal cues to get the resident dressed. The resident will also be “convinced” to bathe, if need be.

If the resident requires physical cues to perform the same tasks, the cost jumps to $550 (and at this stage the resident might require two staff members to get them to perform personal hygiene).

The highest level of care also provides someone to check on the resident every two hours, and costs $800 monthly.

This is hardly a complete list: for example, there are charges for making appointments and other “clerical” services, for “concierge” service, and for other incidentals.

However, there’s one other significant charge about which you should be aware, and that’s the cost for nursing services.

Wound care that involves changing a dressing, and takes less than 5 minutes, is $15 for each occurrence. This service must be provided by a licensed nurse…and if you add it up, it works out to $180/hour that the facility is charging you for the services of an LPN/LVN (depends on where you live) who is not likely to be making above $25/hour. (Each dressing change that lasts from 5 – 10 minutes costs $20; meaning at least $120/hour.)

Add it all up, and the chances that you’ll be paying at least $3000 a month are (in the words of Johnny Mathis) awfully good.

"If Mr. Selwyn calls again, shew him up; if I am alive I shall be delighted to see him; and if I am dead he would like to see me."

--Henry Fox, the First Baron Holland


So how is all this relevant to politics, you might ask?

How about this: we are about to enter an age where millions of Americans will require this sort of long-term care…and many of us do not have $3000 per month available to pay for this kind of care.

How many? It is estimated that 70 million Americans will be 65 or over by 2030, and if the numbers from 1999 continue to be valid, roughly 30% of those people will be living in an institutional setting.

20 million people, at $3000 a month, equals $60 billion that will be required to cover the cost of long-term care for this group—each and every month. That’s $720 billion a year.

So how do we deal with the problem when it hits us?

I don’t know…but consider this: it is going to be tough to reduce these costs, if only because these are tasks that are not well suited for automation. These are services, for the most part, that require one-on-one care (or even two-on-one care)…and those who provide the care will want pay raises…which we will want to provide, in order to help keep the quality of care at a high level.

You should also know that there are substantial costs associated with “fixing broken workers”. The fact that workers are often required to assist clients that are physically large or physically awkward puts a lot of these workers out on injury leave…and the unhappy fact is that understaffing is a common way to try to control labor costs in nursing facilities, adding to the injury problem these workers face.

How bad is the healthcare injury problem? Ironically, the Bureau of Labor Statistics tells us health care facilities are the most dangerous work environment in the United States.

“General medical and surgical hospitals (NAICS 6221) reported more injuries and illnesses than any other industry in 2007—more than 253,500 cases.” 

To put it another way, there are basically two kinds of healthcare workers: the ones with back injuries…and the ones who don’t yet have back injuries.

As we wrap this thing up, let’s ask that question we ask almost every time: what have we learned today?

If you hadn’t already been thinking about it, it is fantastically expensive to have to receive care at an assisted-living facility, and soon there may be as many as 20 million Americans who will be in that situation…or something even more expensive, such as “skilled nursing facilities” (more commonly referred to as “nursing homes”).

We could be looking at having to find $720 billion (in today’s dollars) to cover the annual cost of that care.

It is going to be very tough to reduce those costs, unless you can develop ways to deliver the same care in a less-expensive environment…or you can find a way to reduce the number of people who will require such care.

Considering the cost of “memory care”, money invested in Alzheimer’s mitigation today might pay huge dividends later.

So that’s the deal: there is a giant bill that’s coming due, we better be thinking about it now…and one way or another, this will become one of the biggest fights in American politics as we move into the middle third of this century—so we can either get ready for it now, or we can all act surprised later.

Of course, if enough of us require “memory care”…then I guess that surprised look on our faces won’t be an act, eh? 

Poll
long-term care?
i can afford it
i can probably afford it
i'm not so sure
i can only afford a quick death
for the immortal, it's a moot question

Results

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better keep the ol' melon sharp... (4.00 / 1)
...'cause a dull melon looks like it'll run about $800/month to care for, on top of all the other costs.

"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

This hits close to home for me (3.50 / 2)

My parents have been struggling with the desire to maintain their independence in the face of declining health for a few years now.  They're living in their own -- paid for -- home.  So they've been hiring in-home caregivers.  Here are the going rates for North Alabama:

Aid, not through an agency -- $9 - $10 per hour

Aid, through an agency -- $15 per hour

LPN or retired RN (if you're really lucky) not through an agency -- $12 - $13 per hour

LPN through an agency -- $16 - $18 per hour

So, if you can live at home but need help, that help will cost $9 to $18 per hour.  Generally they will do whatever needs doing, from laundry and cleaning to preparing meals, personal assistance (including dressing and bathroom help) and reminders to take medication -- although most won't touch the actual medicines.  They will do shopping and doctor visits for that rate, but if they use their own vehicle there's an extra charge.

What does it cost?  If you need help 14 hours a day, every day, figure $3780 to $6300 per month.  If you can get by with 8 hours a day, it's only $2160 to $4320 per month.  Of course, you still have to buy food, medication, supplies (lots of supplies when your health starts to decline) and pay utilities and incidentals.  So, the assisted care cost is tacked onto the cost of your regular living expenses -- on steroids -- except for vacation costs because you won't be taking many vacations anymore.  The benefit to this is that you get to stay in familiar surroundings and you can mostly dictate the daily routine, something most assisted living homes don't accommodate. 

I won't even get into the problem of finding honest, trustworthy caregivers, except to say that the worst ones my parents have had all came through agencies that claimed they had done extensive background checks on all their employees.   



Work harder and work smarter!

Assisted Living (3.00 / 4)

I think we're headed back to the days of big old Victorians with Grandma in the attic...Of course, that big old house will run you a pretty penny, what with energy costs and whatnot.

Assisted living is meant to be a sort of halfway house for folks who can mostly manage on their own. The one cited in the article sounds like it  has a nursing home option. It also sounds like a bait and switch tactic. It offers what sounds like a decent deal, but that's only for 'living', not assistance. If the folks didn't need any assistance, why would they move there in the first place?

A lot of hotel chains, like Quality Inn, operate nursing homes and assisted living places. They work minimal staff, and pay them diddly. All those charges are going to them, not the the caregivers. Some nursing homes are actually converted motels that weren't producing much profit. They sure do now :)

Here's how the game works: (at least how it did--not up to the minute). You must contract to pay x-thousand a month for care until you have nothing left. Your house, car, savings, etc. must all go to them eventually to pay for care. At that point, Medicare steps up to the plate, and takes over the payments. You need to be bankrupt or very close to it, and you will be, in pretty short order.

Whatever estate you might have had will not go to your children, it will have gone to keep you alive that last few years in the Old Folks Motel. You will eventually die there, and the funeral home boys will then come and collect you,

Then your heirs will get one last hefty bill to cover putting you in the ground. (extra for make-up, hairdo, and gravestones). According to some reports, this might add up to 10 or 20 grand or so.

At this point you become marginally useful again, fertilizing the local flora :)



When in doubt tell the truth. It will confound your enemies and astound your friends.---Mark Twain


[ Parent ]
Caregiver pay (0.00 / 0)
Talking to the (mostly women) who've worked for my parents, the caregiver is typically earning $7.50 an hour when you're paying the company $15.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Victorians with Grandma in the attic (4.00 / 1)

Honestly, that's a better solution if you have family.  My parents are determined to be independent, which means staying in their own house, but it would be so much easier if they moved in with a family member.  We live close, but when they need help they call and someone has to drive over, plus we aren't always home when the need arises.  A lot of times the "caregiver" is just needed to help out in the event the elderly person needs a hand, not all the time.  A family environment where there's usually someone around -- even a child or teenager -- could deal with most of the basic needs, at minimal cost.

And I wouldn't recommend the attic unless you also have an elevator.  Put grandma on the ground floor and put the kids in the attic.  :-) 



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
absolutely, absolutely, absolutely... (0.00 / 0)
...in-home seems to be the way to go--and i'm trying to research whether the reality matches up with the potential for a part two i didn't even know i was going to need to write..

"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
this was most assuredly not... (0.00 / 0)

...a nursing home.

i agree with you that there would be no point to be there if you didn't need the services, but the point of the menu seems to be to accomodate a variety of needs--and to be fair, if i only needed to be reminded to go to meals, i wouldn't want to support someone who had memory management issues and requires two people to help them bathe, which is the disadvantage of a "one-price fits all" approach. 

the big difference between "assisted living" and a nursing home? in nursing homes you see lots more "medical" services than in assisted living. 

for example, you would probably not see people who require extensive wound care or those with ventilators or those who require tube feedings in assisted living. 

take a look at my comment above that describes how in-home options can work, and how that can impact costs.

in such an environment, lots of victorian houses with someone's grandma in every bedroom actually makes economic sense--again, assuming you can provide quality staff to make it work. 

so does providing care in-home for your own relatives, even if the amount of care required makes it tough for the caregiver to maintain outside employment.

all that said, this is indeed a spectacularly tough problem, there is a lack of effort from leadership in fixing the problem...but there is the potential for a better outcome that the system that you've described, and that so many are today enduring.

and a final comment: cremations, nationwide, average $500-1500.

 

 



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
a few thoughts... (0.00 / 0)

...i can tell you from long, long experience that you might actually be better off with an lpn than an rn for "hands-on" care and treatments.

in many healthcare settings, rns are the ones who do case management (and/or medication distribution) with lpns doing the treatments and the wound care...and doing a lot of med passes themselves.

there are exceptions, and it is fair to point out that some facilities do not hire lpns at all. 

it would be highly unuisual--if not impossible--for lpns to do "specialty" work, such as surgical nursing, or staffing an icu, or working as a physician's assistant or nurse anesthetist...but then again, it would be highly unusual for a client to require those services in the home.

The Girlfriend, who has been working as an lpn with developmentally disabled clients for more or less 25 years, would want you to know that the type of licensure is often less important than the base of experience the caregiver brings to the assignment.

here are two examples:

--she tells me that hospitals have virtually no understanding of how to deal with the siezure disorders she deals with on a daily basis.

--when her clients are admitted to the hospital, they are often accompanied by a cna; this because they often exhibit idiosyncricies of speech and behavior that are incomprehensible to the hospital staff.

the "take-away" here: if the person who needs care requires "memory care", look for a person with that experience if at all possible. if they're recovering from a broken hip, an orhtopedic or physical therapy background would be the goal. 

now about those wages:

 --a staff rn in rural central washington state can expect to earn from $52-75,000 annually, or $26-37.50 per hour (specialty nurses can earn up to $50/hr).

lpns in suburban seattle can expect to earn roughly $33-48,000 ($16.50-24/hr.)

 cnas make $11-16/hr.

agencies add about 30-50% to that cost.

in-home care workers are either directly employed or employed by agencies in washington state, and all agencies are paid the same rate per worker. in july 2007, that rate was $16.62/hr. directly employed individuals earn $6-7/hr. less. (it is possible for family members to be paid for providing these services.)

that said, in-home care is vastly cheaper than assisted living:

"The average monthly caseload for Medicaid
in-home care mid-year 2007 was 27,366.
The average cost per client per month for
home and community based clients averaged
around $1,179.80 in the Washington State
Fiscal Year 2006. The average monthly
nursing home cost per client during the same
fiscal year was $3,575.15..."
 

as you so aptly note, the tough part of all this is to locate reputable in-home workers, and we do not know how that will work out as more and more states adopt this sort of "in-home emphsis" model.



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
This is a terrible problem (4.00 / 2)

My mother is rapidly approaching 90 and suffers from dementia. She was in an assisted care facility which was moderately priced at around $1200/month and she had relatively good care. My sister in law is a nurse and my brother knows the owner of the facility so they knew most of the employees. Even at this deal of a cost my mother ran through her savings pretty quickly. The local hospital has an internal care facility with a long waiting list, but my mother was finally accepted and that is where she is now, covered by Medicare.

 We do face terrible problems with terrible consequences in the next few years and our leaders keep dancing around the solutions!

 



there is no way... (0.00 / 0)

...that most families can provide the 24-hour a day care that is required for people with severe memory management problems--and a lot of those families feel severely guilty about the entire thing.

please know that so many families experience the same thing; and if it's happening to someone in your own family please let them know it really isn't "their fault". 



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
Middle income Alabamians likely to outlive their retirement savings (0.00 / 0)

There are some astounding figures in this study. 

>> Almost three-quarters of middle-income Alabama households seven years from retirement can expect to outlive their financial assets if they attempt to maintain their pre-retirement standards of living.

>> Almost 9 in 10 working Alabamians within seven years of retirement and more than 8 in 10 new retirees without an employee pension plan are likely to outlive their assets.

Read more here



Work harder and work smarter!

The 401 Corporate Gimmick (3.00 / 1)

Worker pensions and retirement plans used to be a Corporate benefit. Somewhere along the line the Corporations created (exploited and manipulated with government complicity) the 401 K Plan, and told us this was retirement for us! The Corporations increased profits, sold us stocks, and convinced us the stock market was our golden egg. And in most cases reduced benefits by 20-30%.

Watching PBS one night, I saw a consultant ask a CEO if he could bring in the CEO's secretary to help develop the CEO's retirement plan. The CEO said "Are you nuts? She doesn't know anything about investment and retirement!," and the consultant replied," And yet you ask her, and all your other employees, to manage their personal retirements?"

This same "Frontline" episode mentioned most workers would have to be saving 18-20% of their earnings annually to have a secure, long-term retirement investment.

And we think 6% is a strain! 



[ Parent ]
if one of those ceos was here right now... (0.00 / 0)

...they might say something like this:

"defined-benefit plans, which pay a set amount to a retiree each month, combined with retiree health care, are exactly why gm and chrysler are now bankrupt.

by adopting "defined-contribution" plans we were able to control our costs and we no longer have to pay workers who no longer work for us."

that same ceo might tell you that they would be perfectly willing to contribute 18% of the current income of today's workers so as to make retirement affordable in the future; but they would also be quick to tell you that this would require a similar cut in current wages, and that the odds of getting workers to accept such a deal would be near zero.

how does this get fixed?

i don't know, but in fairness, there are compelling arguments on both sides, which has a lot to do with why this is such an intractable problem. 



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
retiree health (4.00 / 2)

Is just one more reason I'm in favor of a national health care plan. How can our auto manufacturers and other industrialists compete otherwise, with countries that do have national health?

GM has said that if they add all benefits, their average worker makes 6 figures. That may be exaggerated, but it does show one of the reasons American companies can't seem to stay competitive.

If we have public health, the high cost of Blue Cross becomes moot. Some of that money could become wages, and some might serve to retool factories, or improve bottom line...

Perhaps health care is one reason wages haven't even stayed close to inflation. What could have been wage increases go to health coverage. What could have been full-time jobs become part-time, so that companies are 'offf the hook' for health coverage.

Instead of across-the-board decent wage increases, we have one segment of the economy sucking up the product of the rest, namely the Health Insurers. They provide jobs too, but at what cost to every other business?



When in doubt tell the truth. It will confound your enemies and astound your friends.---Mark Twain


[ Parent ]
It's the economy, stupid! (0.00 / 0)
The huge profits of Big Pharma and Big Insurance have to come from somewhere.  They're being sucked out of the rest of the American economy.  Talk about strangling growth -- huge health care costs will do it.  And it hurts us in the global economy too, because other countries don't push these costs onto their producers.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
republicans will tell you... (0.00 / 0)

...that european countries often have lower business taxes than the us (ireland's 15% corporate tax rate is often cited), and therefore we can't afford to tax business to pay for healthcare ("we would lose our competitive advantage...").

what they seem to forget is that most european countries have personal income tax rates at or above 50%, which is why european producers don't pay for health care through their taxes. 

unless we intend on taxing ourselves at or near 50%, or we continue to pay premiums for insurance, we will have to put some of this bill on business...and if we want to win the political fight on this we better figure out how to explain it to the larger voting public and the business community. 

i suggest a variation of the old fram oil filter advertisement: "pay me now or pay me later". 



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
i absolutely agree... (0.00 / 0)

...that national health care would be the obvious solution for all businesses (and obviously, to the extent that businesses are required to shoulder some portion of the tax burden to support such health care, that advantage is diminished).

it's also fair to note that the "profit" portion of this industry might be under 25% of revenues.

obviously 25% is a huge "get" for the system...but there are other things that might be just as effective, or even more so, in cutting future costs:

--we need a "wellness" model of care, rather than a "sickness" model.

instead of putting all the money into fixing the sick, we need to seriously invest in preventing illness and disease...and finding serious problems, like cancer, as soon as possible.

the other payoff is that wellness can reduce the demand for long-term care as the "well" people age. 

--our republican friends tell us if we were paying for our own care, we'd be more careful about how the money was spent.

for some reason our republican friends don't like government spending its own money more carefully, and i would like to see us doing more serious negotiating for everything that government buys--especially drugs. 

--in, home, in-home, in-home. it costs medicare about three times as much to provide long-term care in an institutional setting than to provide long-term care in-home.

--find an effective treatment for alzheimer's. alzheimer's patients require three times the healthcare dollars as other elder americans...and while my estimate might be off, i did a "back of the envelope" guess and i think we couild cut the potential $720 billion annual cost of long-term care in 2030 and beyond by 1/3 if alzheimer's were to be completely eliminated. 



"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
middle income everyone... (4.00 / 1)
...likely to outlive their retirement savings, judging from the responses at the various places i've run this same poll.

"...i have to quote marx here: groucho and chico were having a debate..." --barney frank

[ Parent ]
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Right in Alabama

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