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ALGOV2010: New Poll Shows Davis Strong with White Voters, Statewide

by: mooncat

Tue May 19, 2009 at 12:51:11 PM CDT


Artur Davis

 

A frequent argument trotted out against Artur Davis as the Democratic nominee for governor is that, as an obviously black candidate, he won't be able to attract enough white voters to win the general election.  I call it the "we're really all racists in the voting booth" argument.  The better question, recently heard at a Birmingham Downtown Democrats meeting is "can any Democrat attract enough white voters to win?"  Today Davis released some Anzalone Liszt poll results that speak to these questions.

First we have polling against Democratic rival Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks and potential rival Chief Justice Sue Bell Cobb.  This survey of 600 Democratic primary voters was conducted May 5-9, 2009.

Davis vs. Sparks, Cobb by race 

mooncat :: ALGOV2010: New Poll Shows Davis Strong with White Voters, Statewide

The interesting point here is that Davis does well (certainly well enough) among white Democrats against either Sparks or Cobb and walks away with the lion's share of the black vote.  In fact, the separation between Davis and either of the other (obviously white) candidates polled among white voters -- 4 points for Sparks and 1 point for Cobb --is probably within the survey's margin of error.  I'm assuming there's also a big pool of "don't know" white voters out there to make the numbers add up to 100, but 37% of the white vote is plenty to give Davis the nomination.  In fact, there's a good argument that 40% of the white vote in November would be enough to make Artur Davis our next governor -- but remember, the figures above are for white Democrats in the primary, not white Alabama voters in general.

Artur Davis vs. Sparks, Cobb by Media Market

Davis also looks to have good support in all major media markets across the state.  60%+ in Birmingham is no surprise since he represents most of Birmingham in Congress, but I'm surprised that he's in the upper 50s in Mobile against both Sparks and Cobb, and right at 50% in Montgomery.  He's been burning up the highways, speaking to groups all over the state, and that seems to be paying dividends in name recognition and popularity.  

So, what about general election matchups?  The Davis camp also did head to head polling against Republican Bradley Byrne, emphasis mine:

In a separate sample of 600 general election voters conducted during the same time frame, Davis has opened up a five point lead over the likely Republican front-runner, Two-year College Chancellor Bradley Byrne. Byrne, who is expected to announce his candidacy for governor next week, trails Davis 38 to 43 percent. Davis leads Byrne by double digits in the Birmingham and Montgomery media markets, and holds a narrow 5 point edge in the Huntsville media market.  White Democrats support Davis over Byrne by an 81 to 5 percent margin, while independents break for Davis by three points.

Davis' 43 to 38 margin over Byrne has changed little since a previous poll in January when Davis led 42 to 38.  Left unsaid is what happens in the Mobile media market.  It's not much of a stretch to figure Byrne wins that one by more than 5 -- he's well known in that part of the state.  Still, the argument that white Dems won't vote for Davis in the general election is pretty well knocked in the head by that 81 to 5 margin.  Byrne may be the strongest Republican in the race, but I'd also like to see polling against some of the other candidates, like Tim James or a far right candidate such as Roy Moore or Charles Bishop.

Most of us have said that Davis' fortunes -- as well as those of many other Democratic hopefuls -- will hinge on how well President Obama is doing in 2010.  Anzalone Liszt polled Obama in Alabama too. 

In separate findings in the survey, President Obama’s popularity statewide has risen to far higher levels than his showing in the 2008 election in Alabama.  Fifty-eight percent of voters approve of his performance, including 46 percent of white voters.  In addition, 87 percent of white Democrats and 57 percent of independents approve of Obama’s performance.

57% approval for Obama among Alabama independents is very impressive.  That's a full 18 points better than found in a Survey USA poll at the end of April and a far cry from the 39% of Alabama votes he received last November.  Obama's approval rating among white voters is up considerably in this poll as well.

I don't see any bad news for Davis in this polling.  He was first in the race and still looks like the man to beat for the Democratic nomination.  And based on approval for President Obama's performance thus far, being the Democratic nominee may convey an electoral advantage in 2010, even in Alabama.

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Hurray for Alabama voters! (4.00 / 1)

It's starting to look as though Davis' problem won't be with voters; it will be with the Legislature should he get elected.

Hopefully, he'll be able to shake things up enough to get meaningful ethics reform and other long-overdue initiatives passed.

 



"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




Who they polled (4.00 / 1)

I have to give it to polls and the polling pollsters who poll them, they can make if hard if not impossible to "see any bad news" for their candidate.  I'm not a pollster nor do I play one on TeeVee but I picked up on some key words and some key information not contained in the diary.

Key words emphasis mine;

This survey of 600 Democratic primary voters was conducted May 5-9, 2009.

Key Questions; 

Who were the 600 Democratic primary voters exactly and specifically.  Male/Female, Age, Race, Sex?

How were the 600 Democratic primary voters selected?  Random/Specific?

What was the polling method? Land Line/Cell/Internet?

How many African American Democratic primary voters were polled exactly and specifically? Male/Female, Age, Race, Sex?  77 and 74 percent of what number?

What was the question? 

I am going to assume polling took place in Birmingham, Montgomery, Huntsville and Mobile, but how many from each place?

Most of us have said that Davis' fortunes -- as well as those of many other Democratic hopefuls -- will hinge on how well President Obama is doing in 2010.

Davis may ride Obama's coat tails with white voters but most of us have said that Artur Davis is NOT the second coming of President Obama.  Not even close.  He couldn't/didn't even make sure his district was included in the first round of stimulus money, He voted against the Hate Crimes Bill, resigned as a member of the House Judiciary Committee and to devote more time to running for Governor. 

I share piggiehearts assement of Davis, Sparks and Cobb but of course we weren't polled by the polling pollsters.

The idea of an African-American governor for Alabama has huge symbolic appeal, of course.  On the other hand, I want to see a governor who can and will make things happen, and I am not sure either man fits that description.

Sue Bell Cobb appeals to me on many levels, but losing the court seat is too big a price to pay.  I wish Davis were a more dependable Progressive, although I understand the problem with a true Progressive getting elected.

What is the problem with a true progressive being elected? 

 

 



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



It's a good question (4.00 / 1)

What is the problem with a true progressive being elected? 

But, to answer it, one will have to run.

Neither Davis nor Sparks is as progressive as I'd like.  And Sparks may be worse than Davis on some issues.  He hasn't posted any positions on his Web site yet (the page still says "coming soon!") or issued any public statements on hate crimes, PACT, ethics reform, or other hot issues, so we don't know yet about him.

I do know though, that I'd take either Sparks or Davis by a mile over James, Moore, Ivey, and company.  The best of the GOP bunch is Bryne - and he used to be a Democrat.  Was a Clinton delegate as a matter of fact.



"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




[ Parent ]
Run Progressives Run! (4.00 / 1)

I'll take Davis or Sparks over the alternative for sure, but wouldn't it be both interesting and wonderful if a true progressive candiate emerged?  Someone that wasn't afraid to stand up to the right wing bullies and the right wing media?  Someone who was willing to stand up for women's rights, civil rights, human rights, gay right, jobs, education, and healthcare? 

But, to answer it, one will have to run.

If Barack Hussien Obama was elected President of the United States of America why can't a true progressive be elected Governor of Alabama?

If Sue Bell Cobb is not going to run as a true progressive she might as well stay on the Alabama Supreme Court in my opinion.



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Who would your progressive candidate be? (4.00 / 1)
I don't see anyone in the pipeline remotely ready to run for governor.  Fact is, the Democratic bench is a bit thin and the progressive bench is even thinner. I can imagine some less progressive Democrats running for governor, but I don't see anyone ready to get in the race who can out-progressive either Sparks or Davis.  And of those two, I need to hear more from Sparks before I'm willing to call him progressive.  Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to remember he opposed a constitution convention -- if so, he needs to have a damned good spiel to make me believe that's a progressive position.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
digging deeper... (4.00 / 2)

from the release on the Davis website, it looks like their sample was 46% African American (I've heard the Democratic Primary is about 45% black, so this number is spot-on). 

also, Redeye, I don't think they polled in just the big four.  typically, pollsters poll across the state, but they slice their data so we could see it by the big four media markets.  in which case, this poll shows strength state-wide, including rural Alabama, where Davis held his own among white voters. 

i must say, i'm very impressed that he's holding so strong with white voters against Cobb.  



[ Parent ]
I am learning to be impressed with Davis as a candidate. (4.00 / 2)

Not sold on him as a Governor, Senator or anything else higher up.  I'm not committed to anyone else either.  Those with long memories will recall I was very late to give up Hillary and come out for Obama, so my reluctance doesn't necessarily mean anything for the long haul.  I just don't understand some of his votes.

I understand that Alabama is not Mass. or Cal. bur I'm tired of Democrats voting to placate the right and assuming the left will go along for want of any recourse.



Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten. Cree Nation Tribal Prophecy

[ Parent ]
Who specifically was polled? (0.00 / 0)

Do you want their names and phone numbers so you can call and verify Anzalone Liszt actually called them? 

This is from the Anzalone Liszt polling memo which I did not have at the time of the original post, emphasis mine:

Anzalone Liszt Research conducted N=600 live telephone interviews with likely 2010 Alabama Democratic primary voters and N=600 live telephone interviews with likely general elections voters.  Primary Interviews were conducted between May 4-8, 2009 and general election interviews were conducted between May 5-9, 2009. Respondents were selected at random, with interviews apportioned geographically based on past voter turnout.  Expected margin of sampling error is ±4.0% with a 95% confidence level.

Based on previous discussions of Davis polls from this firm, I'm fairly sure these are land line calls.  Here is a link to the press release where you will find that 46% of the Democratic primary respondents were black, as bluebearcat has noted elsewhere.  Hope this addresses some of your questions.



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Specifics (0.00 / 0)

When I say "specifics" I guess I should have said we don't know the demograpics (sex, age, education, etc.) of those polled.

Raw numbers

If my math is correct (and I'm not sure it is) 46% of 600 is roughly 260 people.

75% of 260 people is roughly 150 people.

But since the purpose of the poll was to predict white democratic primary voter support for Davis the sample of African American voters would be small. 

 



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
The important number here is the 46% (0.00 / 0)

That could be 46% of 50 people, 600 people or 600,000 people, but as long as the proportion matches up to the expected voter universe the absolute number doesn't make much difference.  I'm not a statistician, but I think polling more people just reduces the margin of error -- currently 4%.  Of course, more calls = more cost.

As to getting the raw numbers or crosstabs, those are hardly ever released except to the folks paying for the survey.  You and I would love to see them, but it isn't unusual that they aren't released and we shouldn't hold our breath unless we're ready to pay for a survey of our own -- and if I were to buy a poll I'd look for a match-up between a reform Democrat like Davis and a hard right conservative like Roy Moore.  That hasn't been done publicly and I think it would tell us something about the political climate in Alabama. 



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
mooncat (0.00 / 0)

You keep referring to Davis as a "reform" candidate. What exactly is he planning to "reform" and how?

As far as polls and the polling pollster who poll them, I don't put a lot of stock in them because it's a numbers game.  This poll, bought and paid for by the Davis camp, reflects the opinion of 600 democratic primary voters. 



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Ever heard of statistics? (0.00 / 0)
There's this crazy phenomenon sweeping the math world called statistics.  Some derisively refer to it as a "numbers game."  It lets you analyze a small data set to predict the response of a larger data set.  Cutting edge stuff.

[ Parent ]
That's what I said Brian (0.00 / 0)

A small data sample is used to predict the response of a larger data set.

predict-to foretell something, prophesy. 



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Some serious questions... (4.00 / 3)

First, the sample size seems pretty small.  Second, what was their criteria for an Alabama Democratic primary voter?  Voters who plan to vote in the 2010 Democratic primary or voters who voted in the 2008 Presidential primary?  Because those results look a lot like they came from voters in the 2008 Presidential primary.

That is a problem because, as jacool has explained, in counties outside the Big Four and the Black Belt, primary turnout is driven by local races, not statewide ones.  So you will have many voters (rural white voters primarily) voting for their local sheriff or county clerk or circuit judge in the Democratic primary who are rock-ribbed conservative Republicans come the presidential election.  Initially, I didn't believe this claim but I looked at the 2006 results and darned if there weren't more people voting in the local races than the statewide races in counties like Walker, Etowah, and Cherokee.  Those voters are not likely to be Davis votes.  

Also consider that ADC supporters/members may not find a moderate running to be the first black governor as compelling as a progressive running to be the first black president.  That is, they may not feel strongly enough about Davis to overrule Joe Reed, who will almost certainly mobilize the ADC to support whomever ends up being Davis' strongest Dem opponent.  As Redeye has often pointed out, Joe Reed does not control all of the black vote, but he usually influences an awful lot of black voters.  Could a strong operation on his part hold Davis under 70% of the black vote?  Possibly.  If he did that, Davis would have a tougher path to the nomination.

Another problem is that these numbers presumably do not include voters from the Dothan; Atlanta, GA, Columbus-West Point-Tupelo, MS; Columbus, GA; and Meridian, MS media markets.  Those markets are somewhat small individually, but combined they end up including over 12% of the Alabama population.  Any poll that totally disregards 12% of the population and especially one that leaves out very rural part of the population that is probably much less likely to support Davis has to be more than a little suspect.  I fully expected Davis to have a lot of support in Birmingham metro and Montgomery (after all, it's his hometown) and to do really well in Mobile and Huntsville cities but I'd like to see a better geographic breakdown of where the voters in this poll actually came from.

Finally, this same poll found a 58% approval rating for President Obama.  Guys, I am quite the optimist, but I have a hard time swallowing that.  I definitely believe that President Obama has made huge inroads among Alabamians since he was elected.  A week or so ago, a SurveryUSA poll showed him about evenly split with 48% approval.  I can buy that.  I have seen some thawing of the initial animosity towards Obama, but that big a leap in that short a time is unheard of.  And there is no question that a polling sample that's about 10 points too supportive of Pres. Obama is likely  to be about 10 points too supportive of Davis.   

This presents a problem for Davis, but I do not believe it is an insurmountable problem.  I think he should win the Democratic primary considering the many advantages he will have going into it in terms of financing, media coverage, and national party support.  I believe he can win the governorship if he runs the best campaign.



as always, a fine analysis! (4.00 / 1)

My concern is the moribund nature of the Sparks campaign.  What's up with that, do you think?

I don't think Sparks is going to run as a social progressive, but he does have good economic progressive credentials. I think the two of them could have a bang up primary where they discuss issues, highlight Democratic priorities, and raise the profile of the party in the state - particularly with people who haven't considered voting Democratic for a while.

But that's only going to happen if there's a contested primary.  And right now, Sparks is letting Davis run away with the publicity, media narrative, and everything else.

I don't know which one I'll end up supporting, but I'd like to make a decision soon.  And I need to see Ron Sparks showing a little more, well SPARK in this campaign. Nobody's going to knock themselves out and donate time and money to a candidate who doesn't have his heart in the race.



"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."  - John Kenneth Galbraith




[ Parent ]
I think he may be laying low for a reason... (4.00 / 1)

Honestly, what goes on right now doesn't matter one whit to 95% of the voters in the state came next November.  Everything until the election year proper begins is just political posturing.  Come to think of it, most everything that happens after election year begins is posturing too, but that's another matter.

Anyway, I'd like to think Sparks is doing something very sneaky and smart at the moment.  Obama was in this position around the same time in 2007 and more or less disappeared for a couple months from the national media.  He did it for a reason: Hillary Clinton cemented her frontrunner status during that period, just like Artur is doing now.  That allowed Obama (and presumably Sparks) to run as the underdog.  A populist campaign cannot be sustained at full throttle over two years and, in very different ways, Obama and Sparks are both very populist campaigners.  However the difference is that Obama's campaign was doing all the stuff behind the scenes (fundraising, organizing supporters via email, etc) they needed to do to stay competitive once the voting began while the Sparks camp still hasn't even sent me a confirmation email from when I signed up to volunteer.

The other aspect of this is that the old guard of the state Democratic party does not appear to have really settled on an anti-Davis candidate.  If they cannot find one, they will settle on Sparks.  Bedford has already dropped out and the Sue Bell Cobb talk has quited down an awful lot.  Sparks may not be wanting to jump the gun in building up his own likely undermanned and underfunded operation when there is still a chance he could get the help of the Alabama Democrats' heavy hitters. 



[ Parent ]
SurveyUSA poll (4.00 / 1)

That late April SurveyUSA poll showed virtually no improvement for Obama over the March survey even though he picked up 8 points among moderates and 7 points among conservatives.  Those gains were apparently offset by a 24 point drop in approval from liberals.  Which doesn't make much sense unless they happened to sample some liberals disgruntled because Obama isn't doing enough to move the country left yet.  Anyway, I think the liberal number is an outlier and is at least 15 points too low which means overall Obama approval rate for late April might have been upwards of 50% instead of the 48% SUSA reported.  

And the April SUSA poll was also of 600 people. 



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
SurveyUSA has their own problems but... (0.00 / 0)
they are usually ok on the overall trend.  As for the crosstabs, they are almost always all over the place because of the small sample size.  I just want to see another poll before I can buy into a 58% approval rating with a nearly 50% approval rating among whites in Alabama.

[ Parent ]
What part of Alabama is part of the Atlanta media market? (4.00 / 1)

I can see Columbus-West Point-Tupelo, MS; Columbus, GA; and Meridian, MS as covering parts of the borderlands.

Is Northeast Alabama - say Centre, Mentone, just to name a couple of towns - considered part of the Atlanta market?



Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
- John Adams


[ Parent ]
AL-03 (0.00 / 0)
I don't know the exact area but the towns you named sound about right.  That was one reason Josh Segall needed so much $$$ to be competitive in that district -- the large number of media markets to reach voters.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Can we get Artur Davis elected? (4.00 / 2)

Yes we can.

He will not be the progressive dream.  Neither is Obama. But the symbolism, intelligence and energy will be powerful!

Here in Austin Texas, where I am writing this post, my friends here would LOVE having Artur Davis as governor, instead of the jerk they have now....



Symbolism, intelligence and energy (4.00 / 2)

LOL melmel!  You sure put it in perspective! I bet you Lone Star State friends would RATHER have Artur Davis than Rick(I wanna secede) Perry.

I'm not going to give up hope that a true progressive will enter the race.  As I said in previous comment, if Sue Bell Cobb is going to run as a conservative/moderate democrat she might was well stay on the bench (pun intended).



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
My friend Redeye, (4.00 / 2)
It will be up to those on the left edge like you and me to push our elected Democratic leaders in the direction we want.  I am not electable.  I think Artur Davis is. And I think he is waaay more likely to listen to my opinions than anyone else who has a shot at the job.

[ Parent ]
My friend melmel, (0.00 / 0)

I wish I had the same trust and confidence in Davis as you and others do.  If Davis doesn't listen to my opinions now why would he listen to them after he's elected? 

You said;

It will be up to those on the left edge like you and me to push our elected Democratic leaders in the direction we want. 

It seems like the more we push the more we get pushed to the back of the bus.

You also said:

 I am not electable

And I say, I'm sure lots of people (me included) said the same thing about President Barack Hussien Obama.

Motto?  Yes We Can.



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
I hate to break the news to you ... (4.00 / 1)

But Judge Cobb ran for Chief Justice in 2006 "as a conservative/moderate democrat."  A big "D" Democrat, of course. 

BIZPAC gave her $43,500 and "business associations" contributed a total of $657,000 to her campaign.  She needed every penny of it and would almost certainly have lost had she shut out business groups.  And taking their money doesn't automatically mean she's in the pocket of a particular sector -- business folks have an interest in having a fair jurist on the court to make sure their competition doesn't receive preferential treatment.



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Again, (4.00 / 2)
If Judge Sue Bell Cobb is going to run for Governor as a conservative/moderate Democrat she might as well stay on the bench.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Musical competition (0.00 / 0)

Some here* have speculated that Ron Sparks could stir a lot of excitement by touring with Randy Owen or possibly even have Alabama reunite for some campaign events.  Artur Davis' campaign advisors may have internalized that thought because Ruben Studdard will be entertaining at Davis' official campaign kick-off in Birmingham on June 6. 

Coincidentally -- or maybe not -- Studdard has just released a new album.

 

 

* Yeah, I'm looking at you jacool.  Not disagreeing mind you, just looking. 



Work harder and work smarter!

I like Randy singing my home's in Alabama.... (4.00 / 1)
But Artur's event sounds like more fun.

[ Parent ]
They'll be pulling in different audiences, I think (0.00 / 0)
Randy Owen and Studdard probably appeal to vastly different audiences, but then Sparks and Davis probably appeal to different voters.  Part of the game is to get your peeps all fired up while still appealing to the persuadables.

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
I can do without Randy; Stoddard is new to me. (4.00 / 1)
But that's the best version of "Long and Winding Road" I've heard in awhile.

Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten. Cree Nation Tribal Prophecy

[ Parent ]
They don't call him "The Velvet Teddy Bear" for nothing n/t (0.00 / 0)


Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
The Devil is in the Comments (0.00 / 0)

Found this little ditty from Ben Davis at Politco interesting, but the most revealing part is in the comments section, which ties in with both the poll and the discussion.

First this;

I am a conservative from Alabama and I find Davis to be an appealing candidate. I currently support Tim James but I would not hesitate to vote for Davis if someone like Kay Ivey becomes the Republican candidate.

Then this;

The problem with these types of stories is that the underlying message is that if you don't vote for this guy (regardless of the fact that you have nothing in common with his politics), you are a racist. Republicans have demonstrated over and over that they have no problem voting for African-Americans who share their political ideology.

According to the comments Artur Davis will do well among white voters because he shares their political idealogy.



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



What is the ideology of "white voters," Redeye? (4.00 / 1)

Because you seem to be implying pretty strongly in that comment that all white voters share the same ideology and that ideology is Republican.  In this state, it is true, most white voters are Republicans.  However, between 25-40% will vote Democratic in a statewide race and 15-20% voted for President Obama in November.     I'm a white voter and I support marriage equality, universal healthcare, and the right of workers to organize without unfair interference from management, along with many other progressive positions.  I don't see how that fits into the white=GOP statement you mentioned.  Normally, this wouldn't even bother me, but any time anyone on this blog mentions "black voters" as a single voting bloc, you are offended because black voters have many different motivations for making their decisions.  I figure it's only fair.



[ Parent ]
Clarification (0.00 / 0)

Should have said:

According to these  comments Artur Davis will do well among white republican/conservative voters because he shares their political idealogy.

You would have to ask the commentor what that ideaology is. 

I did not "mention white=GOP" you did.  It doesn't offend me when "black voters" are mentioned as a single voting block.  And the post nor the comment were about you specifically.

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
It was Davis' poll (0.00 / 0)
He got the numbers he paid for.

Enough said. (0.00 / 0)


The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
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