Left In Alabama

The Iraq/Alabama moral equivalency argument

by: nothstine

Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 15:56:09 PM CDT


(We're living in the Occupied South. - promoted by mooncat)



Say, here's some news:  

In an urgent email to its members defending John McCain's affection for really, really long wars, Red State lumped the following together: the present-day US military occupation of Japan, the present-day US military occupation of Germany, and (seriously, now) the present-day US military occupation of the American South.

You can't make this kind of thing up.  It displays a historical grasp that's so bad it's self-parodying:

Notwithstanding that, the DNC is now out with an email blast begging for money, saying again that John McCain wants to fight another 100 years.  No doubt the media will keep repeating it, never pointing out the gross distortion of what McCain said.  It is important, however, that we all have the facts to point out the Democrats and media are working together to push this lie.

Of course, it could just be that the Democrats are clueless about the military.  Someone should ask the Democrats if they think we're still at war with the confederacy, the Germans, and the Japanese given all the standing American armies in the South, Germany, and Japan.

(Emphasis in the original.)

These people must have struggled terribly with the "one of these things is not like the others" game on "Sesame Street."

(Hat tip to CAF.)

nothstine :: The Iraq/Alabama moral equivalency argument
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Uneffingbelievable! (4.00 / 1)

I thought I misunderstood the first time through so I read it again, then I followed the links and read what was there.  They think the American South is under military occupation?  What loons!

Bill Scher at CAF nails it:

I can't believe I am wasting 15 seconds of my life to type this, but having military bases in Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina does not constitute a permanent occupation. Does RedState really believe that 140 years after the Civil War, American troops have a "peace time standing presence" in the American south?



Work harder and work smarter!

You mean it isn't? We aren't? Who knew?! (4.00 / 2)
Are they training teachers at this guys alma mater?  Please don't tell me it's Yale or similar.

[ Parent ]
Teachers? (4.00 / 1)
These guys had teachers?  No way!

Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
How many years before we pull out of Japan and Germany? (4.00 / 2)

If having a military base does not constitute a permanent occupation, could we have some bases in Iraq without occuping Iraq?

 

BTW, the occupation of Alabama lasted for 11 years past the Civil War. Maybe we need to give the situation in Iraq more time? 



[ Parent ]
Occupation (0.00 / 0)

IMHO, the difference between "occupation" and "some bases" is a matter of public opinion.  If a significant chunk of the populace doesn't want you there -- and especially if they're willing to take up arms against you -- it's an occupation.  If they welcome military bases as employers and economic assets, then it's just "having some bases."

The surge is not meeting the milestones originally set out to measure its success.  We are continuing to do the same thing, in the same way, 6 more months at a time and expecting to miraculously get a outcome result next time.  That is perilously close to someone's (the great Ronald Reagan?) definition of insanity. 



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
Let's have an election (4.00 / 1)

IMHO a vote in Iraq on American occupation might actually be approved.

A similar vote in Japan, South Korea or California would fail.  

A good thing we don't depend on public opinion for government.



[ Parent ]
You think California would vote to get rid of military bases? (0.00 / 0)

I doubt it.  In most states the congressional delegation fights tooth and nail against base closures.

Iraqis are much more likely to kick the U.S. Military (and contractors like Blackwater) out than Californians.  



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
I don't think CA wants military bases. (4.00 / 1)

I didn't say that the congressional delegates would vote for a military withdrawl from CA, I was talking about a vote by the peaceful CA citizens (peaceful if there aren't any Olympic torches nearby).

 I am certain the congressional members would fight tooth and nail against a popular vote from the WHOLE state. 

Be honest, the US military has improved security and reduced the killing rate in the past year while Berkley, CA has proposed a law to ban the Marines from recruiting volunteers within the city limits.

 BTW, CA has lost a lot of military bases in the last 10 years and has dropped to nearly the bottom in federal expenditures compared to federal taxes. Alabama has gained significantly in the same time period



[ Parent ]
I think the populace of California would vote to keep the bases (0.00 / 0)

Berkley is no more representative of California as a whole than Huntsville is of Alabama.

Unless I completely misremember, they changed the rules about how deaths in Iraq are reported about the time the surge started.  The old shot in the front it's the war, shot in the back it's a domestic dispute thing.  Figures don't lie but liars do figure. 



Work harder and work smarter!

[ Parent ]
How much more time should we give Iraq? (4.00 / 1)

How do Japan and Germany compare with Iraq?  There was no counter insurgency in Japan or Germany.  Our troops aren't being killed and maimed on a daily basis in Japan and Germany.  Japan and Germany are not Iraq.

How much more time should we give Iraq?  100 years? 



The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
Occupy Alabama Too! (4.00 / 1)

At least Alabama isn't being occupied.

(H/T) Crooks and Liars 

The argument for maintaining a decades-long presence for U.S. troops in Iraq invariably leads conservatives to draw a comparison to post-World War II Germany and Japan. It’s a fundamentally flawed argument, but it tends to dominate the discourse. At least Germany and Japan, though, are foreign countries.


The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.~Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D. MA)



[ Parent ]
so why then (4.00 / 2)

are the occupy-ees sucking up to the Feds by instituting RealID? ^o^

Scallawags! Scallawags and Carpetbaggers! 



When in doubt tell the truth. It will confound your enemies and astound your friends.---Mark Twain


Yeah, pretty unbelievable (4.00 / 2)
I'd be amused by these guys if they weren't so serious.

It's more fun if you comment!

[ Parent ]
Why then, are the occupy-ees (4.00 / 1)

Working as hard as they can to get the Feds to expand the occupation, by means of BRAC etc.

Scallawags! 



"The War in Iraq is not the disease. The War in Iraq is a symptom. Arrogance is the disease" - Bill Richardson

[ Parent ]
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